2 hours ago, VikingWolf said:

They did calm down later in the adventure, but when they did kill NPCs (although the ones they killed weren't vital to the story) it was done in the manner of their characters. For example a Twi'Lek opened the cell, gave them their equipment. One of the player's characters was very paranoid and didn't trust people, so he turned on her as soon as she gave him his stuff. So it wasn't total random killing all the time.

Sounds like definite D20 mentality to me. The "NPC's don't matter so let's kill them all" kind of sociopathic reaction most gamers have. I know you say it was "in character" to kill the twilek, but then when you follow that with "and they killed everyone", that tends to lean more towards the "murder hobo" kind of player mentality

What I do with my players, is try to stress that the story is paramount, not the dice mechanics or the loot. That the idea is to create a fun story with the narrative friendly rules, and not worry about the fine details like looting every body for all of their valuables, etc. I have one player, that even after close to 20 years of gaming with me, still thinks I'm out to kill him and the other PC's in every encounter. Despite my repeated statements that "killing you means the story is over, so why would I do that this early?" And my repeated stressing that I don't give a **it about the mechanics, and only see them as a tool to tell a fun story, and that I want THEM to do awesome, dramatic, cool stuff so that we all have fun, and it's an amazing campaign. And yet, STILL, he thinks I want to pile the corpses of the party in some altar to my GM a**hattery or something. *shrugs*

But I always stress that I want them to think of themselves as being in Star Wars, and the crazy, dramatic, heroic stuff the characters do. Like, leaping out of a window in a building 3 miles high, just to grab a little probe droid. Or diving out of a speeder at the same elevation, without a chute, to grab a passing speeder, etc etc. Go big, and have fun. And don't worry about the details of little things. That seems to help my players shake the dregs of their D20 mindset, which, I feel, is directly contrary to truly enjoying this system. It's more narrative driven, not mechanic driven. And for some players, especially coming off D20, that's a hard pill to swallow.

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

Sounds like definite D20 mentality to me. The "NPC's don't matter so let's kill them all" kind of sociopathic reaction most gamers have. I know you say it was "in character" to kill the twilek, but then when you follow that with "and they killed everyone", that tends to lean more towards the "murder hobo" kind of player mentality

What I do with my players, is try to stress that the story is paramount, not the dice mechanics or the loot. That the idea is to create a fun story with the narrative friendly rules, and not worry about the fine details like looting every body for all of their valuables, etc. I have one player, that even after close to 20 years of gaming with me, still thinks I'm out to kill him and the other PC's in every encounter. Despite my repeated statements that "killing you means the story is over, so why would I do that this early?" And my repeated stressing that I don't give a **it about the mechanics, and only see them as a tool to tell a fun story, and that I want THEM to do awesome, dramatic, cool stuff so that we all have fun, and it's an amazing campaign. And yet, STILL, he thinks I want to pile the corpses of the party in some altar to my GM a**hattery or something. *shrugs*

But I always stress that I want them to think of themselves as being in Star Wars, and the crazy, dramatic, heroic stuff the characters do. Like, leaping out of a window in a building 3 miles high, just to grab a little probe droid. Or diving out of a speeder at the same elevation, without a chute, to grab a passing speeder, etc etc. Go big, and have fun. And don't worry about the details of little things. That seems to help my players shake the dregs of their D20 mindset, which, I feel, is directly contrary to truly enjoying this system. It's more narrative driven, not mechanic driven. And for some players, especially coming off D20, that's a hard pill to swallow.

I think coming of of D&D they had that mentality but by the end they regretted what they had done, and wished they could've gone back and done some cooler stuff and actually spoken to some people. But ultimately I am happy with how it went. We will be starting a campaign soonish, but they have an idea that its not D&D now.

52 minutes ago, VikingWolf said:

I think coming of of D&D they had that mentality but by the end they regretted what they had done, and wished they could've gone back and done some cooler stuff and actually spoken to some people. But ultimately I am happy with how it went. We will be starting a campaign soonish, but they have an idea that its not D&D now.

Yeah, one key thing is for them to realize that they can win an encounter with social roles too. There is a great entry on the Order 66 Podcast, WAAAY back when this system was still first being playtested, from Sam Whitwer. Where he described his players deciding to avoid combat as much as possible with the beginner module. So they ended up doing some insane, but ultimately awesome things, to avoid having to actually fight anyone. They used bluff checks, persuasion, intimidates, sleight of hand, stealth, etc, all to see how far the system would allow them to deal with situations, without having to involve a blaster. And they apparently had a blast (no pun intended) doing it.

One thing that might help reinforce the "You don't have to kill them all" approach, is that the XP they get isn't dictated by how many encounters they beat, or how many people they kill. They get XP based on...well that's a little variable for you to decide, but a good rule of thumb is based on how much actual game time you guys played, and other nebulous factors. Bonus XP for really roleplaying their character in a fun way? +XP. Coming up with a really awesome description of how to use those 2 Triumphs they rolled, that ends up making an ok scene into an awesome scene? +XP. Making you the GM laugh, or in general entertain you? +XP, etc etc. The last 2, I personally found, worked REALLY well with my most insular and introspective players. Some players need a reward. I don't know about your guys, but my two friends are very introverted, and very VERY hesitant when it comes to the ROLEplay part of roleplaying. They get self conscious when expected to speak in character, or when they have to...well...basically roleplay the personality of their character. So, I initiated a reward system. If they roleplay very well, and do things that fit the character, even if it's detrimental to their effectiveness, I will give them bonus XP at the end. And the "Do awesome stuff and I will reward you", was also highly useful. It encouraged them to crank their actions Up to Eleven, if you will. My Jedi player didn't just traverse the zero g hallway, avoiding the debris that was an obstacle. No, he launched himself down the shaft, igniting his lightsaber, and twirling around to try and destroy some of the debris, making it less of an obstacle for the other player. THAT was cool, so he got bonus for that.

Stuff like that helps. It's not all you have to do, but it helps. Especially if you remind them "You know, fast talking your way out of this situation is just as impressive, and worthy of XP, as blasting your way out of it."

Ohh, I thought they just started to kill people randomly!