Whatever you think of Sabine, she is quite the chick to have in a squad. At 2 points, she is not only well worth her average damage output, she is a list building genesis.

My bend on Sabine rewrites are quite diverse, I think there are many ways to buff her a bit but let her work:

1) Rebel Only "Your Upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before your bomb token is removed, choose 1 enemy ship at Range 1 of that token. That ship suffers 1 damage." (Insures that she at least stopped from being the Attani Mindlink of bombs)

2) Rebel Only "Your Upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before a friendly bomb token is removed, choose 1 enemy ship at Range 1 of that token and range 1 of you. That ship suffers 1 damage." (I mean, lets get her up close and personal if she wants to hit somebody)

3) Rebel Only "Your Upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before a friendly bomb token is removed, all ships within Range 1 of that token rolls 1 red die. On a (hit) result, that ship suffers 1 damage." (let's just put some chance in her bomb manipulation and spread the wealth to possible friendly ships)

Thoughts???

This is going to be the thing that gets complained about until FFG nerfs it just to shut everyone up, isn't it? It totally is.

4 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Whatever you think of Sabine, she is quite the chick to have in a squad. At 2 points, she is not only well worth her average damage output, she is a list building genesis.

My bend on Sabine rewrites are quite diverse, I think there are many ways to buff her a bit but let her work:

1) Rebel Only "Your Upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before your bomb token is removed, choose 1 enemy ship at Range 1 of that token. That ship suffers 1 damage." (Insures that she at least stopped from being the Attani Mindlink of bombs)

2) Rebel Only "Your Upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before a friendly bomb token is removed, choose 1 enemy ship at Range 1 of that token and range 1 of you. That ship suffers 1 damage." (I mean, lets get her up close and personal if she wants to hit somebody)

3) Rebel Only "Your Upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before a friendly bomb token is removed, all ships within Range 1 of that token rolls 1 red die. On a (hit) result, that ship suffers 1 damage." (let's just put some chance in her bomb manipulation and spread the wealth to possible friendly ships)

Thoughts???

No.

Wow, Rebel list building has a viable option that makes them competitive?

Let's nerf it.

26 minutes ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

Wow, Rebel list building has a viable option that makes them competitive? completely shoves a bunch of other ships out of the competitive game.

FTFY.

4 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

FTFY.

Rebels havent had ships that shove other ships out the game since Fat Han i'm sorry but that's just straight up wrong

Zuckuss did more to kill off low HP Aces than Sabine ever had.

Additionally, you need to actually run into the bombs. Dengar just had to shoot at you. Sabine made bombs viable as a strategy. Cool, let's just nerf the one thing that made bombs usable. Sorry, no, you're right, you definitely know better for this game.

6 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

FTFY.

The problem with this is how many rebel ships are not viable either. No matter how you stack it, somebody is getting pushed out of the game.

39 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Whatever you think of Sabine, she is quite the chick to have in a squad. At 2 points, she is not only well worth her average damage output, she is a list building genesis.

My bend on Sabine rewrites are quite diverse, I think there are many ways to buff her a bit but let her work:

1) Rebel Only "Your Upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before your bomb token is removed, choose 1 enemy ship at Range 1 of that token. That ship suffers 1 damage." (Insures that she at least stopped from being the Attani Mindlink of bombs)

2) Rebel Only "Your Upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before a friendly bomb token is removed, choose 1 enemy ship at Range 1 of that token and range 1 of you. That ship suffers 1 damage." (I mean, lets get her up close and personal if she wants to hit somebody)

3) Rebel Only "Your Upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before a friendly bomb token is removed, all ships within Range 1 of that token rolls 1 red die. On a (hit) result, that ship suffers 1 damage." (let's just put some chance in her bomb manipulation and spread the wealth to possible friendly ships)

Thoughts???

Your upgrade bar gains the (bomb) upgrade icon. Once per round, before a friendly bomb token is removed, the closest enemy ship at Range 1 of that token suffers 1 damage.

Now it still hits a ship for double damage, but no longer penalises the pilot who was actually good enough to avoid the sodding bomb in the first place.

2 minutes ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

Rebels havent had ships that shove other ships out the game since Fat Han i'm sorry but that's just straight up wrong

Zuckuss did more to kill off low HP Aces than Sabine ever had.

Additionally, you need to actually run into the bombs. Dengar just had to shoot at you. Sabine made bombs viable as a strategy. Cool, let's just nerf the one thing that made bombs usable. Sorry, no, you're right, you definitely know better for this game.

1) Zuckuss was bad, too. He's been nerfed. But Sabine shouldn't be for doing the same thing?

2) You don't run into bombs. The K-Wing brings them to you.

3) Sabine makes bombs overpowered for Rebels compared to the other factions.

4) Thanks for the personal attack for no reason.

3 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

1) Zuckuss was bad, too. He's been nerfed. But Sabine shouldn't be for doing the same thing?

2) You don't run into bombs. The K-Wing brings them to you.

3) Sabine makes bombs overpowered for Rebels compared to the other factions.

4) Thanks for the personal attack for no reason.

BUT SABINE ISNT BROKEN! She only works if you had the skill to actually hit someone with a bomb! Blaming the K-Wing for your own lack of skill is absolutely ridiculous. Additionally, for a K-Wing to "Bring a bomb to you" they also have to decline to shoot or receive any tokens whatsoever. For Miranda, that means no regen this turn. Sabine is the only thing that makes K-Wings viable, because she makes bombing worthwhile.

No, sabine makes bombs viable. All the other factions just suck as using bombs. Overpowered means bombs would be dominating tables: Oh, wait, except they AREN'T! What you're saying is "Well for all the other factions, bombing sucks, so let's make bombing suck for EVERY faction instead!" Don't you see how ludicrously short-sighted that is?

46 minutes ago, streamdragon said:

This is going to be the thing that gets complained about until FFG nerfs it just to shut everyone up, isn't it? It totally is.

This is going to be the thing the original poster complains about nonstop. He's two thread in on this already.

I Love Sabine. i was running bombs prior to her making an appearance, once she showed up my bombs became Golden.

I think it should be damage to the nearest enemy ship rather than any ship in range (from a thematic stand point) but still, plinking extra hull off dengar when he cant retaliate is always a good thing.

The nearest enemy ship in range will always be the one that triggered the bomb, for action-bombs, just to note.

For my money, Sabine would probably be OK limited to range 1-2.

But I'd also like to see Advanced SLAM cost a stress, like EI and PTL.

I go into most new lists wanting to have a bomb threat in.

Every time I get to 100 points and wonder what happened. If Sabine crew was available for Scum I would use bombs.

Sabine is not a problem for me, the weakness of bombs is.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

The nearest enemy ship in range will always be the one that triggered the bomb, for action-bombs, just to note.

This was my point. That's the ship that should be getting the extra point of damage for setting it off, not the other guy who managed to avoid it.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The nearest enemy ship in range will always be the one that triggered the bomb, for action-bombs, just to note.

For my money, Sabine would probably be OK limited to range 1-2.

But I'd also like to see Advanced SLAM cost a stress, like EI and PTL.

Or in other words, if Sabine is the thing that makes bombs good, you won't mind using them on other ships via her addition of a bomb slot.

Right?

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Or in other words, if Sabine is the thing that makes bombs good, you won't mind using them on other ships via her addition of a bomb slot.

Right?

What, like this?

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/682881/bombs-away

Somewhat like that, except without the ugly k-shaped monstrosity.

In other words, if sabine is good on her own, she's good without the K Wing.

Right?

Yes. But to get the most out of her you want at least 1 more ship with bombs on too.
I guess I could use a Y-Wing...

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/682881/bombs-away-mkii

(cut Proton Bombs for some reason, despite still counting the points)

Sabine made me win a 28 player tournament, thats enough of a reason to say she is op

On a more serious note: She is very strong, but the problem I would say are Cluster Mines. They allow you to trigger her a lot more often than she otherwise would with single token bombs. In the tournament I mentioned I was able to end 2 games by flying over the last token myself. I got to use Sabine every single turn once I put some mines down, because on the turns that I didn't drop one, I could run over another with of my Wardens with my opponent still nearby. The Cluster Mine errata by itself is fine, but with Sabine it is too much.

The smoothest 'fix' would be to ban Cluster Mines in lists with Sabine. She would still be very powerful and allow rebels to keep aces in check, but she wouldn't be able to land 7-10 damage by herself, she would be capped at 6. Cluster Mines would be a viable mine for Deathfire and company. Bans like this however are clunky and unprecedented, so FFG is probably not willing to do that.

There is another option: if you know you're going to hit a cluster mine token, instead aim to hit more than one. Sabine is only once per round, so be leaving your opponents cluster mines to be hit singly you are helping your opponent maximize Sabine's use. A tough ship can hit more than one and save some damage later. Or fly a 12 point Academy Pilot or Z-95 through the whole group if you have to. I know it seems counter intuitive to spend 12 points to counter 6 (bombs + Sabine), but if it means saving your aces then so be it.

They can also stay out of R1 of your bomb tokens when they know Sabine is in your fleet, at least until her carrier is dead.

5 minutes ago, streamdragon said:

There is another option: if you know you're going to hit a cluster mine token, instead aim to hit more than one. Sabine is only once per round, so be leaving your opponents cluster mines to be hit singly you are helping your opponent maximize Sabine's use. A tough ship can hit more than one and save some damage later. Or fly a 12 point Academy Pilot or Z-95 through the whole group if you have to. I know it seems counter intuitive to spend 12 points to counter 6 (bombs + Sabine), but if it means saving your aces then so be it.

They can also stay out of R1 of your bomb tokens when they know Sabine is in your fleet, at least until her carrier is dead.

Except, you know, they can't, because you bring the bomb tokens into range 1 of them and detonate them before they can move.

58 minutes ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

Rebels havent had ships that shove other ships out the game since Fat Han i'm sorry but that's just straight up wrong

Zuckuss did more to kill off low HP Aces than Sabine ever had.

Additionally, you need to actually run into the bombs. Dengar just had to shoot at you. Sabine made bombs viable as a strategy. Cool, let's just nerf the one thing that made bombs usable. Sorry, no, you're right, you definitely know better for this game.

Oh no, you don't. Twice I was on the receiving end of a K-Wing dropping a mine on one of his own ships just to finish an ace that was at R1 of the token.

3 minutes ago, costi said:

Oh no, you don't. Twice I was on the receiving end of a K-Wing dropping a mine on one of his own ships just to finish an ace that was at R1 of the token.

Oh that is new level, I have to do that while triple K in its current iteration is legal. Really hope FFG takes the route of conditional bans on this one, but knowing them they will probably put a range limit on her and be done with it.

18 minutes ago, costi said:

Oh no, you don't. Twice I was on the receiving end of a K-Wing dropping a mine on one of his own ships just to finish an ace that was at R1 of the token.

Oh, right, it does say any ship, doesn't it? Well that's just a wording error. It should, reasonably, say enemy ship. I can't disagree with you there.

1 hour ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

Blaming the K-Wing for your own lack of skill is absolutely ridiculous.

Additionally, for a K-Wing to "Bring a bomb to you" they also have to decline to shoot or receive any tokens whatsoever.

No, sabine makes bombs viable. All the other factions just suck as using bombs. Overpowered means bombs would be dominating tables: Oh, wait, except they AREN'T!

What you're saying is "Well for all the other factions, bombing sucks, so let's make bombing suck for EVERY faction instead!" Don't you see how ludicrously short-sighted that is?

1) Oh, we've reached the "git gud" argument already? There have been threads/blogs about how to hit pretty much anything toward the front or side of your K-Wing with a bomb.

2) So? "Darn, I guess my turn is wasted since I can't shoot, all I got to do was blow that 30+ point ace with a single mine out of the cluster." Gee, what a shame for the bomber to have such a bad turn.

3) They shouldn't be dominating tables. Nothing should dominate. And they are good, Sabine just pushes them over the top to where they
PUSH MANY OTHER SHIPS OUT OF THE COMPETITIVE GAME.

(this is the problem)

4) So we keep going with power creep, then, until all 3 factions have something as overpowered as Sabine? Or, you know, we can errata some of the overpowered stuff, like, I dunno, Phantom decloak rules, /X7, Palpatine, Manaroo, Zuckuss, etc.