31 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I posted this on page 2 and it seems like everyone freaking out about this simply ignored it, didn't read it, or doesn't understand the rules.

Squadron Movement To move a squadron, its owner proceeds through the following steps:

1. Determine Course: Place the range ruler flat on the table with the distance side faceup. The center of the distance 1 end of the ruler must be in contact with the squadron’s base.

2. Move Squadron: Pick up the squadron and position it anywhere along the center of the ruler up to the line that marks the end of the distance band matching the squadron’s speed value. The squadron’s base cannot be placed beyond that line. Then remove the range ruler and place the squadron in the final position.

• A squadron cannot be placed with any part of its base overlapping another squadron or ship.

• A squadron can move through ships, squadrons, and obstacles without issue. Only its starting and final positions matter.

• If the range ruler cannot be placed in the play area due to other ships and squadrons being in the way, hold the range ruler above the play area and estimate the squadron’s final position.

• When a squadron moves, it can choose to remain in its current position and is still considered to have moved.

The issue now is that at the beginning of step two with the new tournament ruling document you can then move the ruler anywhere on the table.

I think squadron play in casual games, you can follow this. In a tournament, its anyones game, since we have new wording. TO THE RULES FORUM!

2 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

After chewing on this a bit more, I can see two possibilities.

1) There's some kind of errata coming that will make the purpose clearer. I think this unlikely, but conceivable, and it would explain this.

2) This is much less of a big deal than we're making it out to be, and it's just there to introduce a very well-defined end of your turn to prevent the kind-of take backsies I've run into before. My opponent moves a squadron to take my bait, I reach for the super sneaky Interceptor that was waiting for him to do that, and then he's suddenly "not done yet." Shady, yes, but without clearly-defined you are finished with your turn criteria, hard to call out.

#2 is almost certainly right. People are reading into this WAY more than is intended. They introduced a chess rule to Armada, which is fine. The squadron shuffle hasn't be adjusted in the least. At best it's been confirmed to be okay. At worst it's still nebulous.

1 hour ago, Ardaedhel said:

That sounds like it would be horrifically boring, extremely exploitable, would unnecessarily nerf the ability of fast squadrons to position optimally in the scrum, and would remove any semblance of tactics from the squadron game.

Plz no.

I cannot like this enough!!!!!!!!!!

I really hope Armada 2e uses hexes. Sooooo many problems would be instantly fixed and games would take 1/3 as long to play. No more knock-over catastrophes either.

HeXmada!!!

1 minute ago, Thraug said:

I really hope Armada 2e uses hexes. Sooooo many problems would be instantly fixed and games would take 1/3 as long to play. No more knock-over catastrophes either.

HeXmada!!!

Look into Leviathans, published by Catalyst Game Labs. Fun game.

22 hours ago, WuFame said:

The squadron shuffle, in my opinion, is way way less egregious than these Jersey Inch jerks who jump their X-wings to distance 3.5 while holding the tool way higher than needed. Oh look at that. When this ruler is right in front of my eye the entire table is in distance 3.

I cannot like post this enough..

9 hours ago, emfrank72 said:

I haven't read this entire thread but think this is a great rule. I can't tell you how many times I've waited around for several minutes while someone is fiddling with the placement of a squadron, checking range to everything around it.

And how does this rule change anything on this? Now they can fiddling for several minutes with their hand on the squadron. No change at all .

13 hours ago, Green Knight said:

you can't whip out your other tool and start measuring with it.

On 3/30/2017 at 8:10 PM, Undeadguy said:

Seems pretty simple to me.

Squadron Movement To move a squadron, its owner proceeds through the following steps:

1. Determine Course: Place the range ruler flat on the table with the distance side faceup. The center of the distance 1 end of the ruler must be in contact with the squadron’s base.

2. Move Squadron: Pick up the squadron and position it anywhere along the center of the ruler up to the line that marks the end of the distance band matching the squadron’s speed value. The squadron’s base cannot be placed beyond that line. Then remove the range ruler and place the squadron in the final position.

So here's the practical issue with the RAW...

How often can you actually place the range ruler flat on the table next to your squadrons? Maybe on the first turn, but after that it's rare that you can measure distance 5 without your ruler having to go over other ships or squadrons, whether between your squadron and it's destination or beyond it to distance 5 if you (like me) fly slow Rebel squadrons.

Most of the time people measure their squadron speed/ distance by holding the ruler over the table, flying the squadron to adjacent another squadron with the same speed that has already moved, or not even touching the range ruler if it is obvious that your destination is well within the maximum distance/speed of the squadron.

11 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:

Look into Leviathans, published by Catalyst Game Labs. Fun game.

Or Starfleet Battles (SFB) / Federation Commander (FC or FedCom). Original Series Star Trek style wargame.

18 hours ago, Snipafist said:

"well hopefully that works, let's see" is how ship movement is handled seems disjunctive.*

*Please be nice to my $5 word, I saved up all week for it.

snipafist....

thankyou for a lovely word, I'm going to try and use "disjunctive" at work and see if I can get way without someone rolling there eyes.

9 hours ago, TTC said:

So here's the practical issue with the RAW...

How often can you actually place the range ruler flat on the table next to your squadrons? Maybe on the first turn, but after that it's rare that you can measure distance 5 without your ruler having to go over other ships or squadrons, whether between your squadron and it's destination or beyond it to distance 5 if you (like me) fly slow Rebel squadrons.

Most of the time people measure their squadron speed/ distance by holding the ruler over the table, flying the squadron to adjacent another squadron with the same speed that has already moved, or not even touching the range ruler if it is obvious that your destination is well within the maximum distance/speed of the squadron.

Doesn't mean you get to break the rules and start measuring range 1 at the destination before you decide to place the squad there.

10 hours ago, TTC said:

So here's the practical issue with the RAW...

How often can you actually place the range ruler flat on the table next to your squadrons? Maybe on the first turn, but after that it's rare that you can measure distance 5 without your ruler having to go over other ships or squadrons, whether between your squadron and it's destination or beyond it to distance 5 if you (like me) fly slow Rebel squadrons.

Most of the time people measure their squadron speed/ distance by holding the ruler over the table, flying the squadron to adjacent another squadron with the same speed that has already moved, or not even touching the range ruler if it is obvious that your destination is well within the maximum distance/speed of the squadron.

Because that is the supplimental rule.

If you can't place it flat on the table, then hold it above as close as possible.

This seems like an odd solution to me. I really wish FFG would either actually commit to wanting a certain level of imprecision in this game and remove the ability to premeasure anything other than distance from your own models, or do away with the one tool rule so the game can be played with precision and no stupid "gotchas." As it is, Armada exists in a weird gray area where you can premeasure everything except for the one thing that matters.

40 minutes ago, pyqz said:

As it is, Armada exists in a weird gray area where you can premeasure everything except for the one thing that matters.

I'm cool with that.

I mean, as long as its defined, you should adapt, rather than bring any preconceptions into it.

That's how I approach all rules.

3 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

I'm cool with that.

I mean, as long as its defined, you should adapt, rather than bring any preconceptions into it.

That's how I approach all rules.

It's just a spot of inelegance in an otherwise well-designed game. And I'm really not a fan of how they've intentionally baked gotchas into the rules.

On 3/30/2017 at 9:12 PM, Reinholt said:

This is essentially my point; I don't have any issues in the previous paradigm and I've yet to have a tournament game go to time.

However, being totally blunt, I expect the majority of my games will go to time in the new paradigm. I was doing some practice maneuvering on my board tonight, and here's the problem: I can still get my squadrons to move dead on target, almost every single time, with shocking precision. It also takes a hell of a lot longer. I have to pre-measure every angle first, then I go back and double check to make sure there is not an error (because now once I start moving, I have to leave the tool on the table to track my starting point and I need to know precisely where I intend to land), then I finally move the squadron.

One turn of squadron movement used to take me a few minutes. I expect it will take 20+ once engagement starts now. Again, why, FFG? The pain of placing a squadron incorrectly can cost a game when you are playing in a tournament against other good players, thus I'm going to make sure to take the appropriate amount of time to get it right. That's not even slow play; I'm using the rule you gave me! However, I think this rule played to the letter will dramatically slow down squadrons.

Just let people use two rulers to move a squad, honestly, if you want the chess-style hands on rule.

0_o

FFG:

At the least, please allow us to "pile in" squadrons when they are unequivocally in range without needing to first use the range ruler for speed, thus allowing us to use the ranger ruler for engagement purposes.