The answer to "what if I want to avoid an engagement" isn't to move your tool 4 times with your own squadron in hand. It's to pre-measure distance 1 from the target. If you can't gauge a safe space from the only target that matters, then no amount of shuffling is going to help you;

You know what I'd do? Make the rule "After picking up a squadron to move it, the player must immediately place it in the desired position along the distance ruler. Once the squadron is on the table, it may not be moved again."

2 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

The answer to "what if I want to avoid an engagement" isn't to move your tool 4 times with your own squadron in hand. It's to pre-measure distance 1 from the target. If you can't gauge a safe space from the only target that matters, then no amount of shuffling is going to help you;

You know what I'd do? Make the rule "After picking up a squadron to move it, the player must immediately place it in the desired position along the distance ruler. Once the squadron is on the table, it may not be moved again."

The counter argument to that is what Reinholt said. That's just going to.make squadron gameplay drawn out and long.

I personally don't care which side the ruling falls on, I want everybody playing by the same rule. So in this case, the ruling seems to already have failed, since half of us can't agree what it's actually saying.

Good news is a toury reg means an FAQ is not far behind.

8 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

It's just a redundant rule. Measuring while moving goes against the RRG since the tool must be touching the squads base, and you can still only have 1 tool at a time.

With respect, I have to believe for my own sanity that FFG didn't just clarify in tournament rules that it's okay to move a squadron the way that you are supposed to move a squadron according to the game rules.

FFG is crazy, but that's a bit too crazy for me.

8 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Seems pretty simple to me.

Squadron Movement To move a squadron, its owner proceeds through the following steps:

1. Determine Course: Place the range ruler flat on the table with the distance side faceup. The center of the distance 1 end of the ruler must be in contact with the squadron’s base.

2. Move Squadron: Pick up the squadron and position it anywhere along the center of the ruler up to the line that marks the end of the distance band matching the squadron’s speed value. The squadron’s base cannot be placed beyond that line. Then remove the range ruler and place the squadron in the final position.

• A squadron cannot be placed with any part of its base overlapping another squadron or ship.

• A squadron can move through ships, squadrons, and obstacles without issue. Only its starting and final positions matter.

• If the range ruler cannot be placed in the play area due to other ships and squadrons being in the way, hold the range ruler above the play area and estimate the squadron’s final position.

• When a squadron moves, it can choose to remain in its current position and is still considered to have moved.

You have to have the ruler on the mat or hovering. And this new tourny reg says "Players may measure distance and/or range while moving squadrons." and we already have a timing for While: A “while” effect can be resolved during the specified event and cannot occur again during that instance of the event.

It's just a redundant rule. Measuring while moving goes against the RRG since the tool must be touching the squads base, and you can still only have 1 tool at a time.

Otherwise, how can you touch the tool to the base and still measure range 1 to check engagement while moving? That goes against everything FFG has tried to set in place in regards to squadron movement and multiple tools.

Yes exactly this....since there already is a tool down for your movement as per the RRG your free hand cannot grab another tool. And you just place your sqn. Once placed you just hope you placed it where it was you wanted it to reach. And for an earlier example of it won't fit....you can just place it still within the range of your already laid down or hovering distance tool. Oh well...

I have been using washers for this for awhile now. makes things much simpler and even bumping usually doesn't matter as the washers don't move as easily...plus checking for overlap is easy when ships are moving.

This overall brings more exactness back to the game like ship movement. Take your best guess then commit.

Just now, WuFame said:

With respect, I have to believe for my own sanity that FFG didn't just clarify in tournament rules that it's okay to move a squadron the way that you are supposed to move a squadron according to the game rules.

FFG is crazy, but that's a bit too crazy for me.

You could ask Michael Gernes and get an email in 6 months. Which might also drive you crazy haha

3 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:

It is the only major red text.

I don't know, man.... That one little is in the middle there by itself is pretty **** important

The reality of this wording means we either need to place a marker in the original position of the fighter/be able to use more than one mesuring tool. Or have wording that makes it clear you place fighter and no further adjustment is allowed Anything else makes: 1) the present wording pointless and a impenetrable in regards to meaning 2) a mare when someone picks up the measure to continue measuring while holding onto the fighter then deciding they want to go back and star again but no longer know their starting point was........

FFG may have tried to clarify fighter movement but they have just made it murkier then it already was.......

4 minutes ago, Mogrok said:

"Players may measure distance and/or range while moving squadrons.

Channeling my inner Dras here. How can you measure range while moving a squadron if you're saying the ruler has to be on the distance side to properly move the squadron.

1 minute ago, WuFame said:

Channeling my inner Dras here. How can you measure range while moving a squadron if you're saying the ruler has to be on the distance side to properly move the squadron.

Moving squadrons I'm thinking is referring to the entire step...ie measure all you want before you move it then follow the RRG for moving the sqn (placing the tool down to move it along its length)....then follow this tournament guide that says not further movement after placement of the sqn ....just gets rid of the "I place the sqn...now I measure range to everyone that I wanted to be engaged with...now I wiggle it so that I am only engaged with this one....not that one....or snipe range or whatever....then I finished moving that sqn....

5 minutes ago, Mogrok said:

Moving squadrons I'm thinking is referring to the entire step...ie measure all you want before you move it then follow the RRG for moving the sqn (placing the tool down to move it along its length)....then follow this tournament guide that says not further movement after placement of the sqn ....just gets rid of the "I place the sqn...now I measure range to everyone that I wanted to be engaged with...now I wiggle it so that I am only engaged with this one....not that one....or snipe range or whatever....then I finished moving that sqn....

Guys, I'm really not trying to be a zealot here, and I'm really an open-minded guy, but you have to understand how it's very difficult for me to believe FFG just red-texted that it's okay to use the ruler to move a squadron.

They didn't, the whole purpose of the clarification is to get rid of the reshuffling using a range 1 tool after you have placed the sqn.

2 minutes ago, Mogrok said:

They didn't, the whole purpose of the clarification is to get rid of the reshuffling using a range 1 tool after you have placed the sqn.

Then I really don't understand how it's done that. It hasn't made any statement against re-positioning the squadron at all except to say that removing your hand from it is considered locking it in place.

8 minutes ago, Mogrok said:

Moving squadrons I'm thinking is referring to the entire step...ie measure all you want before you move it then follow the RRG for moving the sqn (placing the tool down to move it along its length)....then follow this tournament guide that says not further movement after placement of the sqn ....just gets rid of the "I place the sqn...now I measure range to everyone that I wanted to be engaged with...now I wiggle it so that I am only engaged with this one....not that one....or snipe range or whatever....then I finished moving that sqn....

I don't think this is the case, since the squadron isn't locked until you remove your hand....Thus this seems to truly mean is that I need to play arm Twister in addition to armada. I have no issue with fine tuned squadron movements. Even with max squadrons I haven't had a game of Armada go to time in quite a while. All it takes is quick, focused play, and communication with your opponent. Why should we need to "guess" where are squadrons are going to be? This is not a game about guessing or predicting spatial relations like X-wing. I would be vehemently against a rule that you get one placement of your squadron and then you are locked. This also seems like it would only cause further issues with AP prone players, as they would measured excessively before making that one move.

Just now, WuFame said:

Then I really don't understand how it's done that. It hasn't made any statement against re-positioning the squadron at all except to say that removing your hand from it is considered locking it in place.

read undeadguys post it details it out...this combined with the actual rule for sqn movement in the RRG (a tool is on the table to move the sqn along) so no 2nd tool can be used. In reality the shuffling was never allowed if you followed the RAW from the RRG.

3 minutes ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

I don't think this is the case, since the squadron isn't locked until you remove your hand....Thus this seems to truly mean is that I need to play arm Twister in addition to armada. I have no issue with fine tuned squadron movements. Even with max squadrons I haven't had a game of Armada go to time in quite a while. All it takes is quick, focused play, and communication with your opponent. Why should we need to "guess" where are squadrons are going to be? This is not a game about guessing or predicting spatial relations like X-wing. I would be vehemently against a rule that you get one placement of your squadron and then you are locked. This also seems like it would only cause further issues with AP prone players, as they would measured excessively before making that one move.

Isn't it a game about guessing....when you use the maneuver tool to make a good guess where you will end up for a ship before locking it in....this is basically the same ruling just pushing it on to sqns. As for time...well then they are slow playing if they are taking that long.

I am not sure what you mean by arm twister?

Well, when holding your maneuver template right over the ship base, you get about a 99% idea of how it will end up. I hold strongly that this is not a guessing game. I would reinforce that I haven't had issues with time with the current rules, you can be exact and quick. So yes, my point is that if people are having an issue with time they should look at slow play, and not changing the rules.

easy tool in one hand mini in the other. don't let go till you have it where you want it. this is not a change for me at all. we have never let a player move it back once its moved.

13 minutes ago, Mogrok said:

read undeadguys post it details it out...this combined with the actual rule for sqn movement in the RRG (a tool is on the table to move the sqn along) so no 2nd tool can be used. In reality the shuffling was never allowed if you followed the RAW from the RRG.

I did read it, that's what I'm actively responding to. I don't see how his analysis concludes that FFG is ruling against the squadron shuffle. If they wanted to rule against it they should have said, "While moving a squadron a player may not re-position the distance ruler". That would completely kill the squadron shuffle.

What you are saying is exactly what I said previously. You are saying FFG red-texted that the distance ruler can be used to move a squadron. That's like saying the maneuver tool can be used to move a ship. Well yeah, thats how you do it.

30 minutes ago, WuFame said:

Channeling my inner Dras here.

19 minutes ago, WuFame said:

Guys, I'm really not trying to be a zealot here,

NOT EVEN I CAN MARRY THESE TWO STATEMENTS.

YOU MUST TRY HARDER.

EITHER CHANNEL ME IN FULL ZEALOTDOM OR NOT!

I just feel like it's not a big deal. People did squad shuffle before, and they will do it after. Squad shuffle is eternal.

6 minutes ago, ouzel said:

easy tool in one hand mini in the other. don't let go till you have it where you want it. this is not a change for me at all. we have never let a player move it back once its moved.

well there is already a tool on the table for the sqn movement as you move it along its length...so you can't use another tool.

Well, you move it along the length and place the squadron on the table, but as long as you keep your hand on you squadron, there is nothing stopping you from then picking up the tool on the table and grabbing a different tool or even the same one to do your other measurements.

1 minute ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

Well, you move it along the length and place the squadron on the table, but as long as you keep your hand on you squadron, there is nothing stopping you from then picking up the tool on the table and grabbing a different tool or even the same one to do your other measurements.

So you are basically trying to fit that into the Move Squadron: Pick up the squadron and position it anywhere along the center of the ruler up to the line that marks the end of the distance band matching the squadron’s speed value. The squadron’s base cannot be placed beyond that line. Then remove the range ruler and place the squadron in the final position.

Well if people want to be that nit picky then they won't know where their original point is nor will they know if they go past the max distance limit...therefore possibly cheating.

Sooooo I guess I can move a squadron, keep my hand on it, flip the tool around to then shuffle to distance 1 of thing I'm going after? Maybe?

*blah*

If ever there was a **** move tourny ruling/clarification gentlemen (and ladies) I think this is it.

I totally respect anyone that communicates as they are moving what they are trying to do and adjusts accordingly presuming space/time/physics allow for it. It just seemed like the gentlemanly/gentlewomanly/gentlebeing thing to do.

After reading this addition, it just feels like they are trying to remove that element.

I mean if we wanna go ripping arms off and all as part of squadron movement, I guess we'll see how it plays.