Ice Queen today.

Leprechaun vs Sorceress vs Ghoul. At least the characters are all equal with regard to starting stats. Leprechaun hits the Woods on his first move, a veritable patent move. He takes his 3 Gold, but also happens to draw the Mercenary. With the Follower's help, he quickly defeats a Frost Drake and a Dragon, boosting his Strength by 2. After drawing the Winged Boots and then rolling a 6, the Leprechaun hits the Middle Region at Temple, gaining another point of Strength. Sorceress is the least happy to see the Leprechaun vacate the Outer Region, as she was looking to taking the Mercenary for herself. Ghoul struggles, a lot of which is down to an early Fate Bound, an Event that removed all Fate from all the characters. Reaper lands on the Sorceress, but she manages to roll a 6, taking Str. After attacking the Ghoul and taking his last Gold, the Sorceress is in return attacked by the Ghoul. One Toadify Spell later, the Ghoul-Toad loses to the Sorceress and is down to 1 Life. He then meets the Dryad who teleports him to the Forest, where he is attacked and killed by the Brigand. Presumably, the Ghoul did live a good life, as he is reborn as the Knight.

Leprechaun is abusing the Woods and Temple on the Middle Region, climbing to close to 20 Gold and seemingly gaining a stat on each visit. He is also spell-cycling via the Wand and has added the Warhorse to his entourage, looking like a challenger against the Ice Queen even at this early stage. Knight slows the Leprechaun down after drawing the Rod of Ruin and zapping 2 points of Strength off. Sorceress finally makes it to the Middle Region, much to the annoyment of the Leprechaun, but she can't manage to land on the pesky little bugger. Knight is the first to explore the Dungeon and he kills a Miser Dragon thanks to a Spell, trading in 14 points of trophies for +2 Str. Next turn, he meets the Vampire Prince and decides to leave after losing a life. Leprechaun slows the Sorceress by casting the Path of Destiny on her, forcing her to take a Warlock's Quest (Kill 1 Animal). Then another twist, the Leprechaun is considering hitting the Middle Region, even though Portal of Power and Crypt would be risky, when the Reaper lands on the Sorceress, she rolls a 5 and sends the Reaper to the Leprechaun. Who rolls a 1, dying mid-game for the fifth time in his sixth appearance, also his third death by the Reaper, more than anyone else. He who was Leprechaun, grows slightly in stature and beard volume, reborn as the Dwarf.

Sorceress is eagerly looking to claim the late Leprechaun's possessions, but it's the Knight who gets there first, drawing the Planeswalker, who allows the Knight a teleport to any space on the Outer or Middle Region. In one move, the Knight is suddenly lifted from mediocrity to borderline challenger for the Crown. Seeing the Sorceress eyeing him, the Knight decides he might as well go for it. Passing the Portal of Power, there is one last risk, as the Sorceress is at the Temple. She rolls a 5, but fails to pass the Portal of Power, losing a point of Strength. Knight passes the Crypt just, then another close success in Dice with Death. With just 2 Lives left, the Knight can't afford mistakes. Werewolf proves a maxed-out Str 12, but the Knight defeats it. Dwarf has been looking for Spells to stop the Knight, but has made little progress in his stats and hasn't picked up a useful Spell either. Knight reaches the Crown and is the first to challenge the Ice Queen. He has an advantage of 2 in battle and manages to whittle the Ice Queen down to 1 life eventually (but is down to 1 Life himself). Then disaster, Dwarf finally gets a useful Spell, another Path of Destiny (Spell discards went back into the Spell deck after Demigod was drawn). Knight now gets a Warlock's Quest and it's to Discard a Magic Object. So the Knight is teleported back to the Warlock's Cave and given a Talisman.

Sorceress zeroes in on the Knight, but can't quite land on him. Instead, the Knight starts following the Sorceress, making sure she can't attack him. And she can't, until she lucks and draws the Arena, calls the Knight over and beats him in Psychic Combat, taking his last life and everything he owned from his corpse. Knight is replaced by the Prophetess, but with the Sorceress now at challenge level, looks like all over. Sorceress picks up the Amulet to protect herself from possible Spells but the Dwarf and Prophetess and hits the Inner Region. Crypt proves too hard on the first attempt, but second go is a success. Dice with Death causes her to lose 2 Lives, but as she went in with 6, nothing too worrysome at this stage. Dwarf has finally hit his stride and started to make much-needed Strength gains, but it's still too little, too late from the looks of things. Sorceress finally passed Dice with Death, then eases past the Werewolf and eventually reaches the Crown of Command. With Str 16 in battle, against the Ice Queen's 12, Sorceress gets a win after a win, finally a stand-off with Ice Queen down to 1 Life. Next attack finishes off the Ice Queen and Sorceress claims her second win in a row, after 11 defeats in a row to begin her career.

Game took 90 minutes, would've over sooner if A) no Ice Queen and/or B) bad luck/choice by the Leprechaun (and Knight partly). Even though the Ice Queen didn't die in round as usual, there still wasn't much end-game to speak of. It was just one char with all the goodies who was capable of challenging the Ice Queen, with the regular ending at least two would've competed for the chance to reach the Crown. One of the longest games with regard to the Adventure deck, not quite, but almost halfway through (I'd say 130+ of the 288 cards or thereabouts). Odd Ice Queen game also in that nobody spent much time in the Dungeon, the usual boost-up space with this ending. Still not liking this ending as much as the standard Crown of Command (I'd put Warlock Quests at #2, IQ at #3), because of the "forced" boosting required, which adds time to the game. Time in general doesn't bother me, it's just that when you reach the normal Crown-level (main stat of 9 or so), you'd be looking forward to hitting the Crown. With Ice Queen, no chance, you're stuck with getting another 4-5+ points for you main stat. I just get the feeling like I'm not getting anything done, just waiting for the right draws to get those stats. Many turns can go by and you're still not any closer to the stats you need.

Oh yeah, and lest I forget. Gold was rampant again, thanks to the Leprechaun. At least this time he had a valid excuse to collect it, with the Mercenary and all. Sorceress ended the game with 10+ Gold, this despite buying 3 Mules a few turns before she hit Inner Region.

130 cards in 90 minutes... so on average, players were processing at least 1 Adventure card every 41.5 seconds on top Spells used/acquire, Purchase card acquisition, space based encounters, etc. Wow.

JCHendee said:

Well, when you put it like that, seems really, really SLOW. 40 secs per turn, that crazy long. 10-15 secs is all it "should" take IMO. Roll, move (since we know the board by heart, so no need to count the spaces), draw, resolve. Add 10 secs for combat.

Everyone seems to like different endings/way the ending is played reading this post.

I used to like the older edition where you had various endings like falling into the void...always a 'look down and smile' moment...haha!

I do think reaching the Crown should be game over. You have reached the destination point and grabbed the reward (why does everyone have to die to win lol)...but alas, this is my opinion only...

At my household we like as many varied endings as possible so you could be unprepared for anything...

Dam said:

I guess, if its just about processing the mechanics involved. Maybe my group is just too into the game related banter along the way.

JCHendee said:

Nothing I see prevents processing the mechanics WHILE bantering/trash talking . Multi-tasking FTW!

Dam said:

If you play it this way, no wonder that you can end the game in 90 minutes

Our normal game speed (2 players) takes always between 3 a 4 hours, ( fastest is 2 1/2 hour with my swashbuckler through the dungeon and landing on field spaces. ( Longest game is around 5 hours. (Maybe because of unlucky card drawing and movement rolls.

We have NEVER finished a game in less than 2 hours except for the occasional fluke. Usually they take 3.

Talismania said:

We don't over 90 minutes, except for the occasional fluke .

Maybe I just need to play more agressively and everyone else will just fall in line...or DIE.

Talismania said:

High body count = more enjoyable Talisman experience. Unless all the deaths are your characters . More PvP the better I say.

Well, once in a while, even the Ice Queen ending doesn't require that long to play...

Troll vs Warlock vs Swashbuckler. Very interesting start to the game. Troll goes first and draws the Planeswalker, moving to the Temple and gaining +1 Craft. Planeswalker appears at Forest. Warlock uses his Teleport Spell to hit the Temple, gaining a Talisman. Swashbuckler moves to the Forest and also moves to the Temple, gaining +1 Str, only to have it Syphoned by the Warlock. Planeswalker appears at Chasm. Troll rolls a 6 and moves to the Chasm and then jumps back to the Temple, gaining another +1 Craft. So Warlock's usual early game advantage of being on the Middle Region all alone has been removed immediately. Then Dark Denizens hits and the Troll is dumped to the Dungeon Entrance via Trap Door. Not that big of a deal really, his initial plan was to hit the Dungeon, since trying to match the Warlock's spell-cycling while remaining on the Outer and Middle Regions hasn't proved enough. And with the Ice Queen ending, Dungeon is the place to boost up and quickly.

Warlock makes a pair of kills, boosting his Strength to 4 and draws the Magic Belt for another point. Then a twist out of nowhere, he draws Basilisk and rolls a 6 for himself, auto-win, except the Basilisk rolls snake-eyes (literally and figuratively I suppose), killing the Warlock! Gasps! Warlock dead?! That's impossible. But it's not, he's dead. He is replaced by the Sorceress, who is in a small winning streak, after a huge losing streak to start off with. Swashbuckler gains Sword of Light and Unicorn, making him happier after the Syphon Strength. This doesn't last long however, as the Troll rolls a 1 in the Dungeon, then moves the Reaper to the Swashbuckler, who rolls a 1 (all Fate had been removed by Fate Bound as the second Adventure card of the game). 10 minutes in and already two casualties, this is looking very cool. Swashbuckler is replaced by Mr. Replacement aka the Warrior, making his seventh mid-game appearance in his 14th appearance alltogether.

Despite hitting the Dungeon with starting Str and Craft 3, the Troll is making headway. First he nabs three kills totalling 14 points in Str, so +2. Then a Miser Dragon for another Str-gain. After a brief spell out of there to attack the Sorceress and remove her Fiend Slayer, Troll heads back in. He adds the Torch to his Objects, giving him more options. No Weapons means Living Statue + Green Slime combo is unbeatable to him (and would be nasty even otherwise), but he's got plenty of Lives. Soon, he gains another 14 points of trophies and cashes them for +2 Str. And he also trades 7 points of Craft trophies twice, boosting him to Craft 5. Sorceress makes it quickly to the Middle Region and starts abusing the Temple, gaining Craft seemingly every visit. And she has also picked up the Unicorn, standing over the Swashbuckler's corpse. Warrior is finding things tough, even with a Sword and his ability, it takes him 4 tries to kill a Giant and two more to kill a Cave Troll. Sorceress has the chance to attack the Basilisk and possible nab the Magic Belt, but she passes, focusing instead of drawing cards. Chalice of Shadow helps her in this, allowing access to the Deserts with no Life loss.

Troll lands in a Vault and draws a pair of Enemies totalling Craft 13, ouch! Turn later, he adds the Tunnel Fighter and Weighted Dice to his collection, which already includes the Elixir of Rage. He is definately looking like taking on the Lord of Darkness. Oracle lets him check the top 5 cards of the Dungeon deck and the following turn he draws the top three, trading in for yet another Str-gain after a kill and gaining the Gauntlets of Might. Following turn, he moves to the Treasure Chamber to challenge the Lord of Darkness. Or, perhaps challenge is the wrong word. Troll has Str 12, he casts Energize to double his Str value (essentially adding +6), successfully uses the Elixir of Rage for +3, Tunnel Fighter and Gauntlets combine for a further +5. So it's Str 26 vs Str 12, with Weighted Dice. So the Troll gains the Talisman as Treasure, rather pointless, but more importantly, exits at the Crown of Command. And even more importantly, both Energize and Elixir of Rage last until the end of the turn, so he attacks the Ice Queen's Str 12 with his Str 24 (since Tunnel Fighter only gives +1 outside the Dungeon). Heavy auto-win. In 40 minutes, the Troll wins.

In terms of Adventure and Dungeon cards, I actually took tally at the end because the discard piles looked so similar in size. 47 Adventure cards had been drawn, but also 45 Dungeon cards, the closest ever game I can remember in terms of the # of cards drawn.

So again, about 90 cards total among 3 players.... interesting to note. I wonder if this roughly 30 cards per player would hold up in other counts. Can anyone offer any card draw statistics for games with other counts of players?

I'm playing tonight so I will keep a tally. It will likely be something more like "No Dungeon cards (dont have the board), 256 Adventure cards drawn, 3 characters killed...it was 5:00 am by the time we finished."

JCHendee said:

30 per player isn't really accurate for this game. Troll spent most of his time in the Dungeon with Torch, so he was hitting mainly 2 or 3 card spaces on most turns, while the others visited Oasis and Hidden Valley maybe once in the entire game. 2 Dark Denizens hit, so that would be something like maybe 5 cards from the Dungeon deck for the others, so Troll drew 40 by himself there. Not that many Adventure cards though, less than 5 probably.

Understood Dam. But I think over time, and not separating where "encounter" cards come from, is what would be most interesting. Over time, we'll see more realm boards come out (hopefully), and hence draws will come more and more from beyond the Adventure deck. So just counting encounter cards in general is what I'm after. Multiple draw vs single draw evens out if multiple draws lead to faster gains and an overall quicker win on average. That is what I'm seeing for what I hear beyond just your very helpful reports. This isn't the only place I'm tracking figures.

Ending: Warlock Quests

Replacing Quests Variant used

Starting Quests

Elf: Discard 2 Gold, Visit the Enchantress, Defeat the Sentinel, Kill 1 Spirit
Leprechaun: Discard 1 Magic Object, Discard 5 points of Craft trophies, Discard 7-point trophy, Discard Armour
Merchant: Discard 1 Fate, Lose 1 Str, Kill 1 Enemy, Visit the Alchemist

Merchant has the seemingly easiest Quests, with Elf and Leprechaun having one tougher each. And the Merchant completes his first Quest immediately, discarding Fate. Elf lands in Woods on his first turn and sets off on his bounces. Leprechaun draws Ice Fang and is forced to discard it to complete his first Quest. Elf stumbles upon some Gold and discards to complete his first Quest. Merchant meets a Pedlar and spends most of his Gold. Soon after, he lands in the City and turns his Water Bottle into Gold, completing his second Quest. Leprechaun visits his own Gold depository in Woods and then reaches the Village to buy a Helmet and then discard it for his second Quest. Elf gets Slow Motion cast on him and uses the two turns to reach the City and visit the Enchantress, gaining +1 Craft as well as completing his second Quest.

Merchant has no trouble finding an Enemy to kill and is soon at three completed Quests. He has also been gaining Craft mostly, so after an encounter with the Magician to move some points to Str, he is able to lose 1 Str, completing his fourth Quest, getting teleported to the Warlock's Cave. Leprechaun struggles in finding Craft trophies or one big one of either type. Merchant returns to the Outer Region and the Elf comes across a Mummy in the Woods, defeating it to complete his third Quest. Seeing the Merchant at 1 Life, the Leprechaun pounces on the opportunity and attacks, killing the Merchant and gaining his assortment of Magical Objects held in the Bag of Carrying. Merchant is replaced by another City-dweller, the Philosopher, who immediately sets about trying to land on any spaces with those Adventure cards Leprechaun is looking for and removing them. This almost backfires, as he lands on the Dragon in the Woods and discards it, only to draw Ice Elemental as replacement. But luck is with the Philosopher and he manages to defeat the Enemy.

Then the Acadecmy appears and the Leprechaun is more than happy to spend his Gold there, gaining stats. Sure, he misses a few turns, but at the end of his training, he'll be a force to be reckoned with. Philosopher tries desperately to land on the Acedemy to remove it from the game, but is unable to at first, thus Leprechaun gets all the boosts he paid for. Still, with the Academy located in a Woods space, it would mean automatic boost for the Leprechaun, so the Philosopher does remove it on the first opportunity. Elf has been following his normal plan of bouncing from Woods to Woods and has made some gains, but the Sentinel Quest is still looking out of his reach. Ironically, most of his gains have come in Craft. Philosopher gets attacked by an angry Leprechaun, but thanks to Brainwave + Warhorse, manages to actually defeat the Leprechaun. Undeterred, the Leprechaun tries to land on the Philosopher again, looking to remove his Warhorse. In those attempts however, he meets a Lesser Demon and manages to defeat it, completing his third Quest.

Philosopher hightails it to the Dungeon, but immediately loses a psychic combat and the Warhorse as result. Mystic Portal has seen both Elf and Leprechaun vacate the Outer Region in favor of the Middle Region. Leprechaun lands at the Oasis, only to draw Medusa + Nightmare combo, a veritable unbeatable duo (Craft 5 + equal Craft to the char). After recovering from the lost turns, he hits the Warlock's Cave to change his Quest, getting Kill 1 Animal instead. Elf follows suit soon after, replacing his Quest with Discard 2 Objects, which he completes there and then, gaining a Talisman and appearing ready for the Inner Region. Leprechaun is having none of it and attacks, only to have the Elf's Champion Follower step in and lose the combat. Elf uses his Riding Horse to reach the Portal of Power, but is unable to roll high enough actually pass it, offering the Leprechaun another shot. But the Leprechaun rolls too low and can't reach the Elf. Elf passes the Portal to the Inner Region and the Leprechaun's final shot is foiled by another low movement roll.

Philosopher has been busy in the Dungeon, but with 1 Life left returns to the Outer Region. Leprechaun runs into a Bear and kills it, completing his fourth Quest, putting him at Crown-ready. Philosopher reaches the City to heal, but then runs into the Witch, who Toads him despite using Fate. Elf zaps the Leprechaun with Path of Destiny, forcing him to take yet another Warlock's Quest, this one to Take 1 Life from another character. With Elf out of his reach and the Philosopher on the Outer Region, Leprechaun's chances are shot. Elf passes Mines, sacrifices Horse and Cart and Riding Horse for the Vampire, defeats the single Pit Fiend with ease. Leprechaun has been looking for Spells, but has been unsuccessful. Elf reaches the Valley of Fire and the following turn moves to the Crown to win.

Did a tally at the end, game took 70 minutes, 144 Adventure/Dungeon cards drawn over the course.

Interesting. Compared to your other games, it seems the increase in accessing the Adventure deck was due to the need to complete quests before heading to the Crown. Only a guess, but...

Philosopher in particular was discarding and redrawing quite a few cards, so even landing on draw 1 card space with a card on it, there was a draw. Ragnarok probably helped as well, wiping some 15 Adventure cards off the board when it hit.

Elf and Leprechaun both were at Crown-level in stats, but each was stuck with a Quest they couldn't complete, so nothing to do except bounce around the Outer Region drawing cards. That Discard 7-point trophy is pure luck, do you get one or not. I think this game saw 6 Enemies that would've completed that Quest: 2x Dragon, Ice Elemental, Lesser Demon, Lord of the Pit and Vampire Prince. LotP got Ragnarokked, Philosopher tossed one Dragon to get the Ice Elemental and kill it, and Leprechaun didn't have Craft to take on the Vampire Prince (he had Str 12 in battle though). Philosopher could've probably gone for a hail mary with his Brainwave + Fate to try and pass Portal of Power + Mines, since he had inherited the completed Quests off the Merchant.

AH, indeed, lots of draws due to delays and the challenge of completing quests... on top of the Philosopher of course. And personally, many of the quests are too easy (barter and trade on the spot) or too difficult, being highly dependant on random draw where you often watch those limited cards needed being drawn by someone else. Lots of "tough luck."

Yep, that's the reason the Replacing Quests Variant has been used in every game. Seems kinda bland to have an all-Good char game, with Knight getting "Take 1 Life from another char" Quest. Knight begging people to attack him so he could take a life if he wins.

Ending: Ice Queen

Gypsy vs Knight vs Ogre Chieftain. Gypsy bounces to the Middle Region and Temple on turn one, courtesy of the Magic Portal. This also sees her gain an immediate +1 Str. Knight draws Wand, normally a very nice Object, but with Gypsy in the game, caution must be observed. Ogre finds a Ring and hits the Dungeon. Gypsy drops back down to the Outer Region and meets the Eastern Dragon, defeating it thanks to a Spell. Soon after, she meets a Giant, gaining another Str 6 trophy. Add to this a Strength Spell and the Gypsy is looking like yet again the front-runner. But the Dungeon has always been the most fertile hunting grounds, this game is no different. Ogre is up to Str 11 in about 10 minutes, utilizing his ability to gather Followers, then using them to help him get bigger kills.

Then disaster. Just after the Ogre spent his Fate to avoid defeat, Gypsy drops the Random Spell on him. No Toad, but possibly an even worse outcome, as the Ogre loses 5 points of Str. This puts everyone back to more or less a level field. Knight finally makes it to the Middle Region, where the Gypsy has returned and has been sipping away at the Magic Stream, pushing her Strength to beyond the Knight's. And after killing a Goblin, she trades in 14 points of trophies for a further +2 Str. Knight draws the Idol at Hidden Valley, so now he has two spaces where he can utilize his Pray ability and he is making the most of it, starting to gain Strength at a nice rate. Ogre pops back out of the Dungeon to heal up, having ran into a string of Craft Enemies. While outside, he draws the Skull Wand. Back into the Dungeon, the Ogre is back on the trail of stats gains, with the help of the Skull Wand, even starting to make Craft gains.

Reaper lands on the Gypsy, but she rolls a 6, gaining yet another point of Strength. With both Knight and Gypsy drawing cards there and neither having any carrying capability beyond the normal four Objects, the Middle Region is soon clogged with cards on all draw spaces except one Desert. Gypsy wants to keep getting cards, so she drops back to the Outer Region, where there are very few cards. But not for long, since the Gypsy then starts filling the spaces with Objects she doesn't want and Strangers. Ogre adds the Hunchback to his entourage, giving him greater control over his movement. By now, he has once again hit double-digits in Strength and is looking like a challenger for the Lord of Darkness soon enough.

Gypsy has a scare after drawing the Basilisk, but luckily for her, it doesn't roll doubles. Gypsy then zaps the Ogre with the Path of Destiny, forcing him to take a Warlock's Quest (Kill 1 Animal). Still, should he attack and defeat the LoD, Ogre can make it to the Crown without bothering with the Quest. As it happens though, he does meet an Animal in the Dungeon and easily kills it (Ogre was Str 18 in battle in the Dungeon), dashing his hopes of taking down the Lord of the Darkness for the third time, but completing the Quest teleports him to the Warlock's Cave and earns him a Talisman. Not that he would've had trouble obtaining a Talisman by other means, Middle Region seems full of them, scattered on spaces after being ditched. Neither Gypsy or Knight can hope to win against the Ogre in battle, so taking his Talisman seems hard. Gypsy tries the Spell route, buying a couple, but no luck. Ogre heals up at Castle and reaches the Inner Region. It is only then that the Gypsy draws a possible slow-down Spell, another Path of Destiny. Sadly, the Quest the Ogre draws is Pray at Temple, so he plows ahead with the Str-path. Knight zaps the Hydra Spell to include the Gypsy as a target for the Spell as well, forcing the Gypsy to draw a Quest herself (Discard 1 Armour).

Ogre passes Crypt and Dice with Death. Knight hits Temple and gains Transference, possible changer. Ogre moves on, but the Knight keeps rolling too low, he can't reach the Inner Region before the Ogre is at the Valley of Fire. Gypsy has been trying to land one of the Runes, where an Armour has been waiting for quite some time, but she is having no luck. Ogre moves to the Crown and battles the Ice Queen with is Strength 16 in battle. Three wins later, the Ice Queen is on the ropes. The Ogre cashes in a Str 4 Follower to boost himself to Str 20 and an auto-win. Despite losing 5 points of Strength to the Random Spell, Ogre Chieftain finishes with Str 13 (and Craft 9), winning in 70 minutes.

Somewhat eerily, 144 Adventure cards once again (83 Adv, 61 Dungeon). Would've easily been 160-180+ I think, had the Middle Region not been so full. Seriously, Desert between Oasis and Warlock's Cave was the only space where you could draw a card. But with Idol and Temple within reach of each other, the Knight figured might as well try his odds at landing at either. Gypsy probably should've dropped to the Outer Region (and maybe even Dungeon) sooner. She had double-digits in both stats, but no Weapons, so would've been so-so at best against the Ice Queen with her end-stats.

Dam said:

The problem is that you don't know why he has to take that life... and the text on the cards doesn't help.

There are plenty of ways to set up a Good character to take like from another, or other tasks that might seem to violate sense of alignment. But that's not how they were conceived. The commercial quests aren't real quests and aren't really even tasks. They are based purely on game and character attributes and then thinly justified with text. In other words, they were created backward from the mechanics and then never pulled completely into the game's story.