Clue in the title! With the new FAQ changes is the Tie Swarm ready to make a comeback?

I took the Pattiswarm to a 3v3 teams tournament in Rotterdam, where we ended up getting the win. The swarm is pretty well placed imo.

The good - Mindlinked Jumpmasters are at a huge disadvantage against you, and you can block and delete a K-wing in a turn of shooting. Biggs/Ghost is pretty one sided, too. Defenders can now be blocked and focussed down.

The bad - Dash is always a challenge, but not impossible. Quad TLT's can wear you down fast if you don't get a good engagement. Asaaj can be tough to crack. I find Asaaj + TLT Y wings to be very tough, but perhaps I just don't have a good gameplan yet.

Swarms are very rare these days, and I found that a lot of people were excited to play against me, just for the novelty.

Assaj should wither to a round of shooting just like anyone else; even with focus/evade/Latts that's only 3 out of your 7 attacks that are missing...

I think TIE Swarms are ALMOST in a decent position right now, but the prevalence of big spike damage, particularly from Fenn, will really make their lives difficult.

10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Assaj should wither to a round of shooting just like anyone else; even with focus/evade/Latts that's only 3 out of your 7 attacks that are missing...

I think TIE Swarms are ALMOST in a decent position right now, but the prevalence of big spike damage, particularly from Fenn, will really make their lives difficult.

Its probably my relative newness to the swarm. My opponents don't joust with Asaaj, but try to engage on angles and at distances to limit my alpha strike. I'm sure the matchup will become easier with time.

Better, definitely, but still in a pretty rough place I think.

Nope.

2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Better, definitely, but still in a pretty rough place I think.

12 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Nope.

Any reasoning for these comments? What in particular is a tough matchup?

3 hours ago, Bonza said:

The good - Mindlinked Jumpmasters are at a huge disadvantage against you, and you can block and delete a K-wing in a turn of shooting. Biggs/Ghost is pretty one sided, too. Defenders can now be blocked and focussed down.

The Biggs/Ghost matchup is one I was worrying about. I heard the best way to stop that is to bump it. I was looking at 2scout/Fenn with munitions, but you encourage me with this post to go back and try the swarm. You said you did the Pattiswarm, what are your thoughts on crackswarm?

Also, I played a guy on vassal with a snap swarm: 5x Black Sq w/snap shot and Howlrunner w/snap shot. That seems like it could work on the Ghost, unless I understand it wrong the snaps would get to shoot the ghost and not Biggs based on how the attack is triggered. Am I reading that wrong?

The blacksnap thing shreds a single ghost, but that list has an issue if theres multiple fat ships.

I ran 4blacksnaps + Rhymersnap/tac/opspec to a local tourney and the only list i faced that i felt like i couldnt really do anything to was a double ghost list. I utterly shredded one of them, but i simply couldnt get through the other one since i was down half my ships at this point. (2 4die attacks and bad defense rolls ftl... least he didnt get to attack with the first ghost twice since the snapshotting of round2 killed it off)

I will say this though: that is a fun as hell and dirty list to run lol. Snapshot within range 1-2 of Rhymer will either do damage, or generate a focus for someone, and the rhymersnap at range2 denies people like Fenn from getting in my face so easily.

7 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

The blacksnap thing shreds a single ghost, but that list has an issue if theres multiple fat ships.

I ran 4blacksnaps + Rhymersnap/tac/opspec to a local tourney and the only list i faced that i felt like i couldnt really do anything to was a double ghost list. I utterly shredded one of them, but i simply couldnt get through the other one since i was down half my ships at this point. (2 4die attacks and bad defense rolls ftl... least he didnt get to attack with the first ghost twice since the snapshotting of round2 killed it off)

I will say this though: that is a fun as hell and dirty list to run lol. Snapshot within range 1-2 of Rhymer will either do damage, or generate a focus for someone, and the rhymersnap at range2 denies people like Fenn from getting in my face so easily.

What do you think of running Hux I. The shuttle instead of the Tactician. Unless I'm missing one of your upgrades (maybe lightweight frame) there is room. This way you have mods on both offense and defense for most of them with Hux and OpSpec throwing out tokens better than Attani.

3 minutes ago, Rolotamasi said:

What do you think of running Hux I. The shuttle instead of the Tactician. Unless I'm missing one of your upgrades (maybe lightweight frame) there is room. This way you have mods on both offense and defense for most of them with Hux and OpSpec throwing out tokens better than Attani.

You can't put hux in the shuttle, he's one point too fat

12 minutes ago, Rolotamasi said:

What do you think of running Hux I. The shuttle instead of the Tactician. Unless I'm missing one of your upgrades (maybe lightweight frame) there is room. This way you have mods on both offense and defense for most of them with Hux and OpSpec throwing out tokens better than Attani.

For ref, that list was:

Imperial Snappy Specialists

SnapBlack 16x4
Snapshot (2)

Major Rhymer 36
Snapshot (2)
Hull Upgrade (3)
TIE Shuttle (0)
OpSpec (3)
Tactician (2)

Total: 100

Rhymer is the overpriced as balls bomber that can change the range of secondary weapons, this is the ONLY build ive found that i actually dont see him as overpriced with. Range2 snapshots, which trigger tactician, BEFORE the target ship can get an action? Yes please! And its surprisingly easy to land it rofl. Also means doublestress if i land it at all since i still got my normal attack.

OpSpec is the main key here, my snapshots either do damage or give my fighters that just did an Evade action an Focus as well. I usually got 2-3 a round between snaps and regular attacks. I actually had one guy deliberately taking snapshot damage instead of using his x7 evade to deny me a focus, which i was TOTALLY fine with lol

Hull Upgrade is the only flexibility in there unless you wanna ditch Rhymerstrat entirely, and believe me i dont. That snapstress saved my bacon 2 out of 4 games by screamin "NO YOU DONT!" to Fenn trying to land at range2 and boost into range1. Fenn caught at range2 w/o tokens is just too glorious, and seeing as hes so bloody common, Rhymer is staying.

Also, Shuttle has a 4pt cap, Hux is 5. You could bring a Lambda since this build is 36pts but you not only lose a snapshot but you might as well lose an attack all together given that the Lambda cant turn around to keep up with the fighters, the bomber can. For Rhymer especially, the 5K is a boon not a penalty because i WANT him behind the fighters due to extended Snapshot range and hes the obvious lynchpin to the whole strat.

It utterly decimated a palpaces list (prenerf), dengar + fenn, manny + fenn + 2 Z's. I lost to double ghosts, because i simply could not evade the high attacks long enough to remove one of them.

1 hour ago, John Rainbow said:

Any reasoning for these comments? What in particular is a tough matchup?

What drove Swarms out was /x7. However what rose up to beat /x7, like big attacks from Bossk/Miranda or the bombing Ks and Kanan all give swarms a hard time as well. If you hit hard enough to damage Ryad you're also hitting hard enough to one-shot Howlrunner.

Snapshot counts as a secondary weapon? I'm super confused

4 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

Snapshot counts as a secondary weapon? I'm super confused

Secondary weapon is defined as any upgrade card with the Attack header. It has an attack header, so its a secondary.

Hotshot Blaster is a secondary weapon, yet nobody questioned that one. I dont get why its so hard for people to grasp that snapshot is too (btw you are by far not the only one to question that)

If it wasnt a secondary weapon, what would it be? There is no third kind of weapon, and you dont just magically get to toss dice at someone unless it also negates their defense (slicer tools)

I totally get what you are saying and it makes sense.its just counterintuitive I guess...

Like...The weapons use weapon slots... Snap is an ept. So it feels like what's happening is the dude is taking a hip shot with the primary at a specific amount of dice.

Secondary.

Hence why its incredibly weak. Its not a weapon you slap onto your ship, its your pilot being incredibly quick and taking a potshot when he/she sees a tiny window to take one. Thats why its so inaccurate and weak.

1 hour ago, Rolotamasi said:

The Biggs/Ghost matchup is one I was worrying about. I heard the best way to stop that is to bump it. I was looking at 2scout/Fenn with munitions, but you encourage me with this post to go back and try the swarm. You said you did the Pattiswarm, what are your thoughts on crackswarm?

Also, I played a guy on vassal with a snap swarm: 5x Black Sq w/snap shot and Howlrunner w/snap shot. That seems like it could work on the Ghost, unless I understand it wrong the snaps would get to shoot the ghost and not Biggs based on how the attack is triggered. Am I reading that wrong?

I think the Pattiswarm is better overall. As Stayonthleader mentioned, a lot of lists pack enough punch to one shot Howlrunner, and thus it is pretty vital to be able to block the field, deny target locks and control range. Having 3 blockers makes a hard screen for alpha strikers to get through.

Miranda, especially Sabine Miranda, will crumple like paper if you get the block, too.

39 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

What drove Swarms out was /x7. However what rose up to beat /x7, like big attacks from Bossk/Miranda or the bombing Ks and Kanan all give swarms a hard time as well. If you hit hard enough to damage Ryad you're also hitting hard enough to one-shot Howlrunner.

Thanks for posting back. While I agree that these builds can one-shot any Tie of their choice, I would argue that you can also pretty quickly burn down either of these ships (like Bossk or Miranda) and maybe get a decent trade for Howl. At this point with these kinds of lists you should have 5 or so Ties left against a single ship or a couple of weaker ones (if running Pattiswarm). The problem I saw with x7 was just that blocking was not enough to punch through the free evade. Now that this is a lesser issue I can see this matchup being easier also.

Trouble is you can easily be down two TIEs before you get to pick up a red dice.

6 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Trouble is you can easily be down two TIEs before you get to pick up a red dice.

Acceptable loses. The Empire thanks you for your service.

It's a danger to lose a ship anytime you field more than 4, TIEs or not.

If anything swarms are at a disadvantage for the sheer fact that points matter.

Swarms not losing a ship is unheard of. Swarms only losing 1-2 ships is also unheard of. So by default, even if they table their opponents, they didnt clean sweep them while most other top lists did clean sweep their games.
My last local tourny was decided in my favor strictly because of that. Both me and another player went 4-0 with full 100pts each game, but he lost Dengar one game while i only lost a Striker in two games...dengar was worth more so i was ahead.
Ive ran crackswarm + howlie and 8tie swarms, never had a game where i still had more than 5/6 flying around (5 for crackswarm, 6 for 8man swarm). Using that mentality, i know i would have been down ~24pts each game instead of 25 in 2 games. I would have lost on points because of those 2 dang TIE fighters being sacrificed for the greater good (..i just used a tau ref in starwars..).

Its the only reason i hate that system. In literally any other game i do that all the time where i have the sacrificial lambs (hell MANz missiles in 40k is my favorite unit of all time, so cheap and SO DEADLY and so hard to kill unless you waste heavy weapons on them and not the battlewagons toting my boyz around). In xwing, when they use the point system to determine winners when they have a tie in victories, i cant do that. I am inherently at a penalty if i have a sacrificial lamb strat, because even if i win every single game with a 100pt sweep, i lost 20-30pts each game because of that lamb to get it.

I don't think they ever stopped being playable, but I think the FAQ makes them slightly more appealing.

3 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

If anything swarms are at a disadvantage for the sheer fact that points matter.

Swarms not losing a ship is unheard of. Swarms only losing 1-2 ships is also unheard of. So by default, even if they table their opponents, they didnt clean sweep them while most other top lists did clean sweep their games.
My last local tourny was decided in my favor strictly because of that. Both me and another player went 4-0 with full 100pts each game, but he lost Dengar one game while i only lost a Striker in two games...dengar was worth more so i was ahead.
Ive ran crackswarm + howlie and 8tie swarms, never had a game where i still had more than 5/6 flying around (5 for crackswarm, 6 for 8man swarm). Using that mentality, i know i would have been down ~24pts each game instead of 25 in 2 games. I would have lost on points because of those 2 dang TIE fighters being sacrificed for the greater good (..i just used a tau ref in starwars..).

Its the only reason i hate that system. In literally any other game i do that all the time where i have the sacrificial lambs (hell MANz missiles in 40k is my favorite unit of all time, so cheap and SO DEADLY and so hard to kill unless you waste heavy weapons on them and not the battlewagons toting my boyz around). In xwing, when they use the point system to determine winners when they have a tie in victories, i cant do that. I am inherently at a penalty if i have a sacrificial lamb strat, because even if i win every single game with a 100pt sweep, i lost 20-30pts each game because of that lamb to get it.

What tournaments are you doing that have mutliple undefeated people? Are they not doing enough rounds? Every tournament I've ever been to either has enough swiss rounds to only have 1 undefeated player, or else go to a cut, in which case if you're undefeated you'll make it in regardless of MoV.