Just now, thespaceinvader said:

Dash ignores obstacles.

Obstacles have their effects at specific times, if he's ignoring them at those times, those effects are ignored entirely, not deferred until later.

Correct: obstacles have their effects when an overlap occurs. The obstacle FAQ update clarified what happens when overlaps occur outside of the activation phase. Prior to that, since overlaps were (as written) a function of maneuvering only, you'd be totally correct. But that's no longer the case.

So if Dash is ignoring obstacles, how do obstacle effects trigger? He's ignoring obstacles, right? It isn't beyond the scope of reason that when the activation phase ends, he overlaps.

I'm not saying the dude's correct, just that he isn't definitively wrong, and the community is being unnecessarily rude and aggressive about it. This wouldn't be the first time that FAQ changes affected the way pilot or upgrade cards interacted with the other game pieces.

That would have to actually be written into the rules to be the case.

It's not.

If it were, he'd be correct, but that wouldn't be a clarification, that would be a change to the RAW.

4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

That would have to actually be written into the rules to be the case.

It's not.

If it were, he'd be correct, but that wouldn't be a clarification, that would be a change to the RAW.

Ugh. No, it wouldn't. There's no reason why it would have to be. Before the FAQ clarification, there was no potential window for an overlap to trigger on Dash. Now there is.

The only clarification that would be needed is that "obstacle effects do not trigger when a ship is ignoring obstacles." In fact, R5-X3 specifies ignoring obstacles until the end of the round, so it wouldn't even need to be a Dash-specific clarification. Just a clarification on what ignoring obstacles entails.

For the last time: Not saying he IS correct-- I think it's unlikely. Just saying he technically COULD be, and there are some major assumptions at play to assert 100% that he isn't, and the rancor being directed his way is unfounded.

The key here seems to be the ambiguity of what "ignores obstacles" means. FFG should clear this up for us.

Just a side clarification, Dash says "You may ignore obstacles during the Activation phase and when performing actions ." So his ability doesn't fully "turn off" during combat phase. someone can give him a free action, which he could use to boost/barrel roll onto or through an obstacle unscathed during combat phase.

That being said, i am going to try to say what has already been said many times but maybe worded slightly different will make sense. the issue at hand is ignoring obstacles. If Dash moves over an obstacle during activation and chooses to use his pilot ability, then he is ignoring the effect that is triggered by moving into that obstacle because he is ignoring that obstacle. . . timing window now closed for moving over an obstacle. PAUSE...

(Just think of any other ship in the game. It moves over an obstacle, effect is triggered, timing window is closed. When the combat phase begins, that ship does not retroactively again suffer the effect of moving through/over an obstacle NOR does it suffer the effect of NOW overlapping an obstacle from another means other than maneuvers at the beginning of combat.)

...CONTINUE. So now starts the combat phase and dash is sitting on an obstacle. He has passed the window for the triggered effect, and is now treated just like EVERY other pilot in the game who begins the combat phase sitting on an obstacle.

You missed the point Whispering Hawk, Dookies is convinced that ignoring obstacles is the same thing as those obstacles not being there at all so when Dash suddenly stops ignoring obstacles it's like having a debris token dropped on your ship.

However that is not the interpretation of what "ignores obstacles" means to the rest of the community, most importantly it has never been interpreted this way at any high level event that Dash has seen play in (which means all of them, including events run on FFG property by FFG employees), so D00kie you will have to get an official statement from FFG backing your interpretation before it would be considered valid.

That's actually great, I'll also give it a shot:

1. Dash overlaps an obstacle during activation phase
2. The obstacle effect is triggered
3. Dash can, doesn't have to but can, ignore the obstacle
4. Activation phase ends, combat phase begins
5. Because the obstacle was triggered in 2. (which in turn prompted 3.), the while subsection comes into effect.

Maybe that clears it up some more?

Now if this were to happen during combat phase and due to an action performed by Dash, it would be exactly the same. However, outside of activation phase and actions by Dash, the 3. point does not come into effect and is skipped.

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

That's actually great, I'll also give it a shot:

1. Dash overlaps an obstacle during activation phase
2. The obstacle effect is triggered
3. Dash can, doesn't have to but can, ignore the obstacle
4. Activation phase ends, combat phase begins
5. Because the obstacle was triggered in 2. (which in turn prompted 3.), the while subsection comes into effect.

Maybe that clears it up some more?

Now if this were to happen during combat phase and due to an action performed by Dash, it would be exactly the same. However, outside of activation phase and actions by Dash, the 3. point does not come into effect and is skipped.

Isn't step 3 more along the lines that during the Activation phase or when performing Actions Dash must choose TO recognize obstacles with Ignoring obstacles being the default?

Just realized while playing with Dash tonight and pulling a stunned pilot card that the FAQ ruling on stunned pilot contradicts our current understanding that Dash ignores the effect of obstacles and not their presence entirely, since he shouldn't be able to ignore a Crit card if he still counts as overlapping while using his ability.

This new FAQ really is an arbitrary mess, they're not even trying anymore.

Thanks, @Tvboy . This is an interesting example:

6 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Just realized while playing with Dash tonight and pulling a stunned pilot card that the FAQ ruling on stunned pilot contradicts our current understanding that Dash ignores the effect of obstacles and not their presence entirely, since he shouldn't be able to ignore a Crit card if he still counts as overlapping while using his ability.

This new FAQ really is an arbitrary mess, they're not even trying anymore.

Crits are separate effects. The wording on the card simply states "After you execute a maneuver that causes you to overlap either another ship or an obstacle token, suffer 1 damage.".

The FAQ states "Damage suffered from Stunned Pilot is in addition to any damage suffered from overlapping an obstacle ".

What does that indicate? Simply that it's not a replacement effect for rolling, that it's additional? Is it speaking specifically in inclusion to the damage rolling effect of overlapping? No, that doesn't happen on a ship overlap. The crit is just an additional effect to overlap.

It's kind of funny to me if Dash was "ignoring" an obstacle. That implies he doesn't interact with it.

Edit: I don't want to complicate things. I'll clear these with the current judge.

10 hours ago, StevenO said:

Isn't step 3 more along the lines that during the Activation phase or when performing Actions Dash must choose TO recognize obstacles with Ignoring obstacles being the default?

Why? Is "may" a specific game term that means you do so unless you say otherwise?

In either case I don't see what difference that would make?

7 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Just realized while playing with Dash tonight and pulling a stunned pilot card that the FAQ ruling on stunned pilot contradicts our current understanding that Dash ignores the effect of obstacles and not their presence entirely, since he shouldn't be able to ignore a Crit card if he still counts as overlapping while using his ability.

This new FAQ really is an arbitrary mess, they're not even trying anymore.

Is it arbitrary, though? What aspects are arbitrary?

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

14 hours ago, StevenO said:

Isn't step 3 more along the lines that during the Activation phase or when performing Actions Dash must choose TO recognize obstacles with Ignoring obstacles being the default?

Why? Is "may" a specific game term that means you do so unless you say otherwise?

In either case I don't see what difference that would make?

It is important because if you don't say you're going to ignore the ability when you attempt some action that action WILL need to be completed even if you land on an obstacle. The "may" in his ability is telling you that he ignores the normal rules unless you say he's not.

It may not make any difference but I do wish that his ability was either always one or turned off until the next round. Fly through a rock; you want the ability on. Want to BR but don't want chance ending up on a rock; now you deactivate his ability despite already saying you're using it this round. Bonus points if your maneuver lands you on a rock without alarm but then you don't want to use an activation to boost/roll and still be on a rock.

13 hours ago, StevenO said:

It is important because if you don't say you're going to ignore the ability when you attempt some action that action WILL need to be completed even if you land on an obstacle. The "may" in his ability is telling you that he ignores the normal rules unless you say he's not.

It may not make any difference but I do wish that his ability was either always one or turned off until the next round. Fly through a rock; you want the ability on. Want to BR but don't want chance ending up on a rock; now you deactivate his ability despite already saying you're using it this round. Bonus points if your maneuver lands you on a rock without alarm but then you don't want to use an activation to boost/roll and still be on a rock.

Honestly, I'm not sure what the correct way is - I guess most people assume you always ignore anyway, and it seems to be true in an overwhelming amount of cases.
The safest way would probably be to always declare if you ignore or not.

But your suggested change would be way more interesting.

In casual it's treated as always on because everybody wants to use his ability. We only follow the declaration when you're boosting/rolling. Technically the player should state what he's doing just like every other ability, such as a HWK using a secondary weapon...

Better to ask the player if it's okay to assume the ships' action will always be to use X.

This topic is fun. Let me throw one more question at you to see what you think.

R5-X3 - " Before you reveal your maneuver, you may discard this card to ignore obstacles until the end of the round."

According to how you are reading Dash, after the end phase of the round, if I was on an obstacle with a ship that had used this ability, I'd roll for damage. Is that what I'm understanding?

The effect from obstacles changes according to when (and for what) it's checked.

It doesn't has a 'global', 'unified' effect that is active at all times. Obstacles produce certain consequences when (and only when) you perform other game effects overlapping them or through them.

• You check effects of overlapping obstacles when you perform a maneuver = Effect: Possible damage/stress, loss of action.
• You check obstacles when stablishing LoS/defending = Effect: Obstruction, extra green dice
• You check obstacles when attacking = Effect: Loss of shot.
• You check for obstacles when deploying Han Solo (Resistance) = Effect: Possible damage/stress.
• You check for obstacles when a tractor beam makes you overlap one = Effect: Possible damage/stress.

Every instance produces its own different effect. There is no 'single/total' effect for obstacles, as the OP seems to suggest.

Dash ignores obstacles during activation phase, which means it would ignore any of the above consequences of overlapping them if it happens during the activation phase. Whether for shooting, performing maneuvers or whatever.

During combat phase, however, Dash would suffer any of the above consequences if it triggers its corresponding check.

The OP is basing its argument in that 'obstacles' have sort of a 'continuous' effect, which they haven't. The effect from obstacles is checked only when the rules instructs you to check for it, which always happens to be associated to ANOTHER game effect. Only then, the presence (overlapping) of obstacles is relevant. And each different check has its own, different consequences.

The way I read this is, He's all good for -

Activation Phase, Dash flies on/through an obstacle, nothing happens (no triggered obstacle effects).

Activation Phase, Dash performs a barrel roll/boost action on/off an obstacle, nothing happens (no triggered obstacle effects).

Activation Phase, Somebody drops Rigged Cargo on Dash, nothing happens (no triggered obstacle effects).

Outside of the Activation Phase, Dash performs a barrel roll/boost action on to an obstacle, nothing happens (no triggered obstacle effects).

What effects Dash -

Outside of the Activation Phase, Dash is forced to move on/off/over an obstacle via a maneuver or other that is not an Action (tractor beam or other etc.) and now must suffer the triggered effects of said obstacle.

Outside of the Activation Phase, somebody drops Rigged Cargo on Dash, the obstacle is now triggered he must suffer the triggered effects of said obstacle.

As for shooting, Dash cannot take a shot while on an Asteroid.