@jmswood put it best.

The act of ovetlap happens during activation. All effects trigger at that time. If at the Beginning of combat it is still overlapping (a state of being not an act) it cannot attack.

20 minutes ago, jmswood said:

You're taking this out of context. The passage in the FAQ is an errata to the Rules Reference, but read the first line:

"The following section should be added after the third paragraph of the Obstacles entry."

The three original paragraphs deal specifically with obstacles and maneuvers. These paragraphs are unchanged by the FAQ. The errata text printed in the FAQ is in addition to the original text in the Rules Reference. The FAQ text applies specifically to overlaps resulting from ship movement other than executing maneuvers. Once again, this rule applies as the movement occurs, not retroactively at the start of the next phase in the round.

In the game, "overlap" or "overlaps" refers to the act of a template or base coming into physical contact with something else. "Overlapping" is a state of being for a ship in the game, a state in which the base remains touching something else after movement is complete. "Overlap(s)" actively triggers obstacle effects; "overlapping" is the passive status of the ship after resolving applicable effects.

I did read the first line and it says to insert this after the third paragraph which is the Debris Cloud.

It's not dependent on ship movement. See Rigged Cargo Chute. That's an example of why this was added to Obstacles.

If the overlapping state is applied even when the obstacle is ignored then that's pretty unique to the ignore mechanic.

DOOkies, if you read the sections in the rules concerning movement, overlapping and obstacles, I think you'll understand what we're trying to get across.

Damage and stress from overlapping obstacles is applied during the Activation Phase of the active ship. In the case of Dash, since he ignores obstacles during his activation he would not roll fof damage or get stress from an overlap. When his activation ends, that's it. During the Combat Phase, if Dash is still on a rock or debris field, no damage or stress is applied. The time frame for that has passed.

11 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

DOOkies, if you read the sections in the rules concerning movement, overlapping and obstacles, I think you'll understand what we're trying to get across.

Damage and stress from overlapping obstacles is applied during the Activation Phase of the active ship. In the case of Dash, since he ignores obstacles during his activation he would not roll fof damage or get stress from an overlap. When his activation ends, that's it. During the Combat Phase, if Dash is still on a rock or debris field, no damage or stress is applied. The time frame for that has passed.

That flies in the face of the FAQ and Rigged Cargo Chute. I've read that, it's Page 14.

@Dookies

When you have right, then all ships on asteroid or debris will suffer again the effect at the begin of the combat phase because they overlap at the begin in combat phase. not only Dash will be effected with this interpreting. What does hinder the other ships to suffer again in this case?

No actually it doesn't. Rigged Cargo happens during the activation phase so he'd ignore it. Best not to waste RCS against Dash.

Just now, GrogEgrog said:

No actually it doesn't. Rigged Cargo happens during the activation phase so he'd ignore it. Best not to waste RCS against Dash.

Most of the time.

You can use Airen Cracken's ability or Ahsoka's ability plus Smuggling Compartments to fart on people in the combat phase.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

Most of the time.

You can use Airen Cracken's ability or Ahsoka's ability plus Smuggling Compartments to fart on people in the combat phase.

Fair enough at which point your Dash would suffer the effects a debris field. But generally speaking it happens during activation.

7 hours ago, D00kies said:

That flies in the face of the FAQ and Rigged Cargo Chute. I've read that, it's Page 14.

Rigged Cargo Chute isn't directly mentioned on page 14 of the FAQ. It is a special case, just like Dash. The Cargo Token deploys like a bomb token, which may cause an overlap. In this case, the FAQ instantly applies because, "the overlap is not from executing a maneuver," as stated on page 14. If this happens during any phase except the Activation Phase, then Dash suffers those effects. If it happens during the Activation Phase, then Dash is allowed to ignore the Cargo Token. The opportunity for Cargo Tokencto inflict damge and stress on Dash is over. All game effects have a window of opportunity, unless the wording specifies the effect is ongoing. (Carnor Jax is a prime example of an ongoing effect.) Nothing in the rules for Debris Cloud or Cargo Token indicates an ongoing effect. The opportunity, "when a ship's base or a maneuver template overlaps," is a momentary opportunity.

3 hours ago, Trevor79 said:

@Dookies

When you have right, then all ships on asteroid or debris will suffer again the effect at the begin of the combat phase because they overlap at the begin in combat phase. not only Dash will be effected with this interpreting. What does hinder the other ships to suffer again in this case?

They don't because they suffered the trigger. The reason behind Dash's case is that obstacles aren't considered to have an effect until Combat.

16 minutes ago, jmswood said:

Rigged Cargo Chute isn't directly mentioned on page 14 of the FAQ. It is a special case, just like Dash. The Cargo Token deploys like a bomb token, which may cause an overlap. In this case, the FAQ instantly applies because, "the overlap is not from executing a maneuver," as stated on page 14. If this happens during any phase except the Activation Phase, then Dash suffers those effects. If it happens during the Activation Phase, then Dash is allowed to ignore the Cargo Token. The opportunity for Cargo Tokencto inflict damge and stress on Dash is over. All game effects have a window of opportunity, unless the wording specifies the effect is ongoing. (Carnor Jax is a prime example of an ongoing effect.) Nothing in the rules for Debris Cloud or Cargo Token indicates an ongoing effect. The opportunity, "when a ship's base or a maneuver template overlaps," is a momentary opportunity.

Dash certainly ignores obstacle tokens during Activation. Not being able to shoot is part of the effect of overlapping an asteroid and that's ongoing.

What doesn't make sense here is that he clearly IGNORES obstacles. Dash can Snap Shot with his base physically overlapping an obstacle because he ignores it. If he didn't ignore it then he wouldn't be able to shoot.

Dash would be able to shoot with Snap Shot during the activation phase even if he was on Debris. He'd also not be obstructed in that instance I believe.

The only 'ongoing' (i.e. continuously-checked) effects of obstacles are not shooting if you're on a rock, and obstruction. Dash may ignore those in the activation phase, even if he happens to be shooting/shot at, but not at any other time.

Dash can ignore obstacles, their overlap and obstruction, in order to use Snap Shot during Activation. When he isn't ignoring obstacles he can overlap and be obstructed. Upon Combat he must overlap and be obstructed.

I don't see Snap Shot working while half of the overlap effect happens. He's either overlapping or he's not.

He could, for instance, if both he and an enemy had Snap Shot, choose to ignore the rock when HE used it, and not ignore it when the enemy did, meaning that he could fire unobstructed but they would be obstructed when shooting him.

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

He could, for instance, if both he and an enemy had Snap Shot, choose to ignore the rock when HE used it, and not ignore it when the enemy did, meaning that he could fire unobstructed but they would be obstructed when shooting him.

Upon that he would be choosing to suffer the effects from obstacles.

Yes. He would.

He would however only be affected by the continuously-checked effects, not the instantaneous ones.

And most players I've met are happy for Dash to decide whetehr to activate his ability on a per-instance basis, which IIRC is supported by email ruling if not FAQ.

@thespaceinvader He's certainly able to activate his ability on a per-instance basis. Choosing to or not to entails effects of overlapping or not overlapping.

Here's what I think is confusing you. In the activation phase while using his ability, dash ignores obstacles. The obstacles don't ignore dash though. When you move a ship into an asteroid the asteroid says 'hey ship, roll damage and skip your action'. Dash simply says "nah, that ain't a good look". Come combat time the asteroid says "hey ship, you don't get to attack" Dash wishes he could ignore it but he can't so he follows instructions and skips his shooting. Just because dash ignores the rock doesn't mean the rock (and game state) ignore dash.

@nigeltastic That's okay. To me it sounds like when he ignores an obstacle he isn't overlapping it or being obstructed by it.

this sounds like a topic to take a rule to an insane extreme to make a pilot/ship you dont like useless.

Sitting on an obstacle between phases doesnt trigger it again. What caused the overlap? Existing? If thats the case, then technically if you landed on a rock/debris you'd suffer the effect THREE TIMES (hitting it in the activation, start of combat phase, start of the end phase). Dash does not magically have a retroactive penalty, nothing in this game behaves that way. The instant an effect happens, you trigger whatever follows. If you can ignore it for whatever reason, you flatout ignore it. You dont come back to it later when the clause to ignore it no longer applies.

4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

this sounds like a topic to take a rule to an insane extreme to make a pilot/ship you dont like useless.

Sitting on an obstacle between phases doesnt trigger it again. What caused the overlap? Existing? If thats the case, then technically if you landed on a rock/debris you'd suffer the effect THREE TIMES (hitting it in the activation, start of combat phase, start of the end phase). Dash does not magically have a retroactive penalty, nothing in this game behaves that way. The instant an effect happens, you trigger whatever follows. If you can ignore it for whatever reason, you flatout ignore it. You dont come back to it later when the clause to ignore it no longer applies.

The thing about that is considering him overlapped would be retroactively penalizing him.

The overlap is only addressed when he loses the ignore state.

29 minutes ago, D00kies said:

Dash can ignore obstacles, their overlap and obstruction, in order to use Snap Shot during Activation. When he isn't ignoring obstacles he can overlap and be obstructed. Upon Combat he must overlap and be obstructed.

I don't see Snap Shot working while half of the overlap effect happens. He's either overlapping or he's not.

I don't know how many more ways the community can spell this out for you:

An overlap happens at the exact time a base or template comes in contact with an obstacle. An overlap does not happen at any point afterward. In the case of Dash, there are multiple situations in which Dash does not incur a penalty for an overlap.

Overlapping is a constant condition. If Dash is stationary on an obstacle, then he is overlapping. If the game moves on to a new phase, or another game effect (like Snap Shot) involves the obstacle, then overlapping could affect Dash, but those subsequent phases and game effects do not trigger an overlap. Overlap and overlapping are not the same thing; closely related, but not the same.

@jmswood Are you saying that Dash couldn't Snap Shot then? He's ignoring obstacles. I think you're hung up on the look and not the mechanics.

When it comes to obstacle I look at them in two different states: Landing on them and sitting on them. There are effects that will trigger when you first contact/land on the obstacle and after that initial burst they are done. There are other effects that will remain ongoing.

Dash's ability allows him to pretend that obstacles do not exist during the activation phase. He moves and performs actions like they aren't there. Outside of the Activation phase Dash is just as vulnerable to the ongoing effects of an obstacle but he's already ignored the consequences of landing on them if he did so during the Activation phase.

9 minutes ago, D00kies said:

@jmswood Are you saying that Dash couldn't Snap Shot then? He's ignoring obstacles. I think you're hung up on the look and not the mechanics.

Dash and Snap Shot have some interesting interactions. IF Dash lands on an asteroid during the activation phase and someone puts himself into Snap Shot's line of fire Dash can use it as he is ignoring the rock he's sitting on. Now during the Combat phase Dash would be unable to attack because he is sitting on an asteroid and couldn't use Snap Shot as his normal attack (it is an Attack upgrade after all and thus a secondary weapon) just like he couldn't use his other weapons.

If you want there is a similar thing when it comes to overlapping ships setting up a "touching" condition and then having that touching remain during the next turn even when there is no new overlap. The act of overlapping a ship sets up touching and causes a ship to skip the Perform Action step of the Activation Phase. Touching ships may not attack each other. Now if the ship were given a free action, and had nothing else preventing it from taking actions, it can still use actions despite touching another ship. Where things may get weird is that next turn it may be possible for a ship to complete it's maneuver without causing a new overlap which allows it to keep its Perform Action step yet it may still be touching the ship it was in contact with the previous round and thus unable to attack it.

27 minutes ago, D00kies said:

@nigeltastic That's okay. To me it sounds like when he ignores an obstacle he isn't overlapping it or being obstructed by it.

So your counterpoint is what? You don't think so? Your opinion goes counter to not only every reply here but every instance of dash being played in any reasonable event and no mention whatsoever in years of FAQ updates. You'll need to provide more than 'no I think it works differently' to come remotely close to convincing anyone.

@nigeltastic Pretty sure my counterpoints are throughout this thread. Anyways, by how some fly Dash it seems like the game state is only partially ignored.