Just now, kraedin said:

They have a turret Upgrade slot, but no built in turret.

Ah, now that makes sense, although the Nym version at least should have had it straight out

Well, the turret in Starfighter was an automated thing, it attacked enemies who got too close outside your control (or was it enemies you had locked?). While I'm kind of sad to see there's not a special turret to reflect this ability, the slot itself is not a terrible break from the design of the ship.

17 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Well, the turret in Starfighter was an automated thing, it attacked enemies who got too close outside your control (or was it enemies you had locked?). While I'm kind of sad to see there's not a special turret to reflect this ability, the slot itself is not a terrible break from the design of the ship.

In most cases, it was automated, but it was also a standard turret in standard missions when he had a passenger(which was rare

5 hours ago, Marinealver said:

focus which was easier to use doesn't have the same modification probability as a TL reroll

Huh? Am I missing something in your argument?

Both Focus and Target Lock have the exact same chance to modify a die (+25%, from 50% unmodified to 75% with TL or Focus chance to roll a hit or crit on a given die). All TL does extra is a 1.5 % larger chance to roll a crit.

2 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Huh? Am I missing something in your argument?

Both Focus and Target Lock have the exact same chance to modify a die (+25%, from 50% unmodified to 75% with TL or Focus chance to roll a hit or crit on a given die). All TL does extra is a 1.5 % larger chance to roll a crit.

and more crits can do stuff. Blaster turret is the only turret secondary weapon that can deal crits (until sync turrets come out and for autoblaster they are the first canceled, and as I was reminded the VCX has the dorsal turret). So yeah you are right the to hit probability is the same but the damage output is favored by TL. Also a little added bonus when you roll all blanks with a TL vs a focus. Rolling all blanks with a focus token can be just demoralizing (then again rolling all blanks after rolling all blanks can be worse).

29 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

and more crits can do stuff. Blaster turret is the only turret secondary weapon that can deal crits (until sync turrets come out and for autoblaster they are the first canceled). So yeah you are right the to hit probability is the same but the damage output is favored by TL. Also a little added bonus when you roll all blanks with a TL vs a focus. Rolling all blanks with a focus token can be just demoralizing (then again rolling all blanks after rolling all blanks can be worse).

Dorsal can crit too.

You might want to wait for more information before claims of falling skies and wild cries of "OP"are issued.

1 hour ago, Stoneface said:

You might want to wait for more information before claims of falling skies and wild cries of "OP"are issued.

i don't think this is a nerf tread, I think people are still looking for that alpha strike meta that u-boats use to have before they got nerfed. Now I will admits the last thing we needed was a PWT with an alpha strike. Still FFG devs should have figured out what it was that made U-boats so good and apply that to well the torpedo-bombers that don't have a turret or out of arc attack. And frankly it can be said with confidence FFG has failed to do such a thing.

Soften 'em up! (100)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (22) - TIE Bomber
Concussion Missiles (4), Extra Munitions (2), Long-Range Scanners (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (26) - TIE Bomber
Deadeye (1), Concussion Missiles (4), Extra Munitions (2), Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (26) - TIE Bomber
Deadeye (1), Concussion Missiles (4), Extra Munitions (2), Guidance Chips (0)

"Omega Leader" (26) - TIE/FO Fighter
Juke (2), Comm Relay (3)

6 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

Well, the turret in Starfighter was an automated thing, it attacked enemies who got too close outside your control (or was it enemies you had locked?). While I'm kind of sad to see there's not a special turret to reflect this ability, the slot itself is not a terrible break from the design of the ship.

That's why Havoc gets Astro and System instead of crew, to reflect the automated turret systems

As to the OP, no, for several reasons. 1: they're more expensive. I doubt they'll be 26, I'd expect 27. 2: Missiles are more expensive. The cheapest 4-attack missile is 4, not 3, so you lose 2 to 3 points there. 3: the second modification is CRAZY expensive; you don't get it without equipping a 3 point crew (K4 or RecSpec) albeit Concussion Missiles come with a very good built in mod. You don't get a mech, and you don't get Mindlink. 4: No built-in turret to help on the off-turns. 5: (probably) no white flip. 6: Only 1 agility, so around half the lifespan. Much, MUCH easier to focus to death or crippledness in a single round of shooting.

They're not the new u boat menace. U boats remain the U boat menace.

U-boats are a perfect storm of a number of traits, any single one of which isn't OP, but taken together they reach a certain critical mass that make u-boats hard to deal with. These would include:

- An excellent dial, allowing stress-free turnarounds as well as great maneuverability overall.

- Ability to barrel roll, which exponentially increases the number of possible ending positions after activation.

- Large base, which combined with above makes JM5K a perfect blocker. Especially when there are 3 of them clogging the battlefield and potentially covering every single possible ending position for your maneuvers.

- Large health pool with decent defense to boot, making them hard to wear down for many lists before they get worn down themselves or the time runs out.

- PWT, which despite low attack value can be surprisingly effective, especially at close range and against tokenless enemies (did I mention they block well?). They also have access to droids that significantly improve the accuracy of their PWT attacks, making them quite deadly in the long run.

- Powerful alpha strike, that can knock out a crucial part of opponent's list early on, making it that much easier to block whatever remains and that much harder for the rest of the opponent's list to chew through 27 HPs protected by 2 agi before the time runs out.

- Access to EPT, droid, crew and 2 torpedo slots, even on generics.

- Price low enough to fit 3 of them in the list.

Now remove from the list above all the traits Scurrg will not have. No large base, no PWT, probably no stress-free turnaround (and worse dial overall), worse defensive capability etc. Nope, they're not going to be u-boats. They might be worthwile on their own, but they lack way too many features that make u-boats what they are. If the ability to deliver a torpedo alpha was what defined u-boats, we'd have a lot of similar lists featuring TIE Bombers, K-wings and whatnot. They're not there (or at least they're not very successful) because it takes more than that.

12 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I don't think so because it doesn't really have the focus to reroll any/all attack dice modification that the old U-boats had.

Agreed, it was Deadeye combined with R4/OCR that made such a nasty combination. If Deadeye alone was enough to make a fearsome alpha-strike then you can 4 Gamma Squadron veterans with Deadeye, Plasmas, EMs, and Chips into 100 points (or swap out 2 for HMs to deal with Aces). I don't see 4 tie bombers setting the meta alight at the moment.

I think the Scurrg will be good but it look more like a Scum K-wing than a replacement U-Boat.

It was the Deadeye/R4 but also the large base, the white sloop, the barrel roll, the PWT.

Skurrg is none of those. Not comparable in any sense other than it can have Deadeye.

12 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Agreed, it was Deadeye combined with R4/OCR that made such a nasty combination. If Deadeye alone was enough to make a fearsome alpha-strike then you can 4 Gamma Squadron veterans with Deadeye, Plasmas, EMs, and Chips into 100 points (or swap out 2 for HMs to deal with Aces). I don't see 4 tie bombers setting the meta alight at the moment.

Seriously, this all over. Getting massive torpedo alphas is possible in half a dozen different ways. Yet only Jumps manage to consistently do well at them. Why?

Double mods, large bases so larger arcs, better blocking, PWT, white turns, ludicrous cheapness.