I just have to say it. I'm getting sick and tired of hear that this or that is destroying this game, or that "x" squad is way too strong, especially if it's just an annoying squad to beat. Look, I don't play tournament and fly whatever the heck I want to, but I also like to see what's popular. Then I see the almost mandatory "x" is to strong thread, look at some of it, and wonder why. I know some cards have had problems, but stuff like TLT is beatable (I'm a VERY aggressive pilot in this game) and I still don't see the big problem with /x7 pre FAC. And that's all I've got.

I'm sick of them too, but I tend to just ignore them. There's always been a lot of the sky is falling around here, but either my tolerance for it is less than before or there's just more of it, but either way I don't spend nearly as much time here as I once did.

I know it's also the reason a lot of fairly popular posters are not here at all anymore.

Ignore them.

I'm sick of Twi'lek pin-up girls slapped on the side of everything, but that doesn't mean I should moan about it every time I see one. Haha.

I was surprised when I signed up for this forum to discuss X-Wing just how many complaints about everything there is.

I can understand why companies don't really want their own official forums, there is a lot of poo in people's pants on these things.

Some of us are sick of "Is anyone else tired of "x" is ruining X-Wing threads" threads...

In my opinion the constant complaining is a path that needs to be treaded very carefully.
On one hand, enough public pressure can force FFG to adjust very obvious mistakes in game design. And that is a good thing. If I want to introduce someone, I will fall back to very basic and nicely balanced out lists. But right after that step, what lists are feasible? The intermediary stage, between basic Rookie Pilot vs 2 Academies and DashMiranda vs Paratani, is very unbalanced because the points are such an unreliable metric. So, a better balanced game is a better game.

But on the other hand I see two problems that can arise:

1. Overexaggerations
2. Fun-Vampirism

Overexaggerations are undermining valid points and do not help the - often necessary - discussions.

But it is the second problem that is more important and dangerous. Every complaint, every cry for nerfs and fixes will suck out some fun for someone. If we as community overdo it with those cries we will drive away many players and reduce the fun for those remaining. And that's not a good thing.

So in that sense I'd ask for more constructive and well thought-out criticism, but for less whining and doomsayers.

We should never be tired of constructive criticism.

9 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

We should never be tired of constructive criticism.

Fair enough. But there seems to be a lot that isn't constructive as well, just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Personally, I don't mind threads with constructive criticisms or a well laid out thread with a general concern with the course of the games for a real discussion (eg. Jumpmaster when was released). I do mind multiple threads of the same subjects, general threads of complaints, and general threads of complaints about complaints.

6 minutes ago, NH Gunsmith said:

Fair enough. But there seems to be a lot that isn't constructive as well, just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Agreed. Sorta like I know X-Wings and B-Wings need some help, but don't see the problem with TLT or the FAC. But I usually just try to ignore it, but it hasn't worked recently.

20 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

We should never be tired of constructive criticism.

Even that can get old after a while. Especially when it's every week we see two to three topics on the same thing.

Plus most stuff here is so highly subjective that it really isn't constructive. The fact that someone finds a given type of list or lists with a given upgrade in it boring to play against is not constructive.

Agreed. There is simply not enough threads around that I actually want to read. When I started with X-Wing (2 years ago maybe?) I found this forum very helpful, fun and interesting. Nowadays I'm trying really hard to find a "worth-my-time" thread. I don't think there is much we can do about it... It just seems to be the way of the internet helped by X-Wings increasing popularity. I guess I will just spend less and less time here

I would wish for some more positivity in general. But I have absolutely nothing against constructive criticism, in fact I encourage it. Just wish there was more of it

Happy jousting guys

2 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

The fact that someone finds a given type of list or lists with a given upgrade in it boring to play against is not constructive.

No it's not, but a solution to try and change it is constructive. It's pretty much the definition.

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

No it's not, but a solution to try and change it is constructive.

Not when the answer is to simply nerf it, and even then just because one person doesn't like something doesn't mean it needs to be changed, because other people may very much enjoy that way of playing.

Taking away someone else's toy just because you don't like it, is not constructive in any way, unless you can show that the toy is actually bad for the game.

2 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

Taking away someone else's toy just because you don't like it, is not constructive in any way, unless you can show that the toy is actually bad for the game.

And gauging the majority feeling of the community is a very good first step to figure out if someone else's toy is actually bad for the game or just annoying to one guy

Which I think is what a lot of people are trying to do.

It's all subjective, of course. What I find perplexing is that when significant errata has been made in the past it has almost without exception led to (what I think many people subjectively consider to be) a more interesting metagame and yet a number of people are utterly resistant to even considering any future changes.

If you do not respond to threads like that than they will go down in 1-2 days. Just don't feed them.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

And gauging the majority feeling of the community

If you could actually do that, it would be valuable... But these forms are not going to be a very effective way of doing that most times. Just because there's a thread about how TLT's are ruining the game doesn't mean everyone actually feels that way, even if most people in the thread agree that still doesn't prove anything or actually provide useful feedback because it may just be that most of us are simply tired of discussing it.

That's why FFG uses things like Tournament results to decide what if anything needs to be changed.

Quite often those things have been identified here as being an issue, and for the most part I agree with the changes FFG has made. But that doesn't mean every post about <something> being broken is actually useful or constructive criticism.

Just now, VanorDM said:

But that doesn't mean every post about <something> being broken is actually useful or constructive criticism.

"You can't legislate against dickheads"

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

"You can't legislate against dickheads"

True, but it seems lately they have outnumbered everyone else around here by a major amount. It used to be that a 'sky is falling' post would get lots of attention, mostly in the form of people calling the OP out for calling a ship broken/useless before it even saw play.

But those were a couple a posts a week or so. Lately it seems like I skim the main board here and find maybe 2-3 topics actually worth reading and fewer actually worth responding to.

Maybe it means more people think there's more problems these days?

5 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

If you could actually do that, it would be valuable... But these forms are not going to be a very effective way of doing that most times.

What else is there? By the way, it's exactly why I wrote this line:

So in that sense I'd ask for more constructive and well thought-out criticism, but for less whining and doomsayers.

I think we see more today because people think FFG buckled to part of the forums cries for nerfing the big four, therefore if they yell what they wanted nerfed loud enough and often enough, it will be taken care of too. This is unfortunate as FFG looks at tournament results for indications of game health, not here.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

What else is there?

Tournament data which is what FFG actually uses to base their decisions upon.

The fact that something is not fun and/or boring is not the reason why FFG makes changes, they make changes because those things are warping the meta. The fact that people don't like them is a symptom of the issue, but is not itself reason enough for FFG to change something.

If complaints, or even constructive criticism was enough, TLT's would've been changed some time ago, since there's been no one single upgrade that has as many complaints that I can think of... But instead we're getting yet another ship that has them included. That's pretty strong evidence that FFG doesn't care much about what's said here, because if they did the Tie Aggressor wouldn't have one.

Just start ignoring people you don't like, I've got a bunch on that list now and it's cleaned the place up loads!