Though the System Open results suggest it’s the start of a dark time for the Empire, there seems to be a new hope for Imperials in the form of TIE/SFs with Lightweight Frame, and especially the SF/Vessery combo: pop Fire Control System on a high-PS TIE/SF and get eeeevil Vessery action economy in the joust. Assuming we go for Quickdraw as the SF (for revenge shot and PS reasons), the key questions are: who’s the third pilot in the list, and how do we kit out Quickdraw and Vessery?

So far, it looks like there are two main answers: first, a heavy Vessery with TIE/D and Expertise, supported by Quickdraw with a 1-2 point EPT and appropriate Tech pick, usually PA. This leaves you with ~20-23 pts for a punchy distractor like Pure Sabaac + Trick Shot, an archetype exemplified by ‘Nickdraw’ from Yavin or ’Jank Aces’ from Mustafar. Vess can tear through low-AGI ships here, but it’s a lot of points to pile on a glass cannon.

Alternatively, you can pop /x7 on Vess, give him a cheap EPT like Crackshot, and depending on what you do with Quickdraw’s EPT you end up with 25–28 points for a pocket ace like OL or maybe Deathfire with EM/Homers/Clusters; the OL variant of this list took top 4 at Hoth. This list looks more robust in the long game, but do we lose too much on the joust?

I’d welcome people’s thoughts here — what’s likely to be the best response to the (proposed) new TLT / Mindlink / Biggs meta? And can we do better than the answers above? How have you flown this? Enquiring minds want to know ;).

I like Deathfire, if anything it's Quickdraw I'm less sold on. Ryad/Vessery/Deathfire is solid.

Interesting — I've mostly flown the TIE/D Vessery list and found I needed a solid closer, given that Sabaac is disposable and Vess didn't always make it past the first few rounds of shooting. I think a fairly healthy Quickdraw can really shine in that role, in a way I haven't felt Ryad always does vs. higher PS (and maybe now stress).

That said, I like that your suggestion (and maybe also Vess/QD/OL) doesn't have as obvious a target order, which is the main downside of Nickdraw and its variants...will have to try this.

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!70:152,-1,-1:33:1:;208:214,36,-1,-1:42:-1:;209:214,36,-1,-1:42:31:&sn=2 SF Vessery

Vessery x7, juke, stealth

QD, FCS, title, trick shot

Backdraft, FCS, LWF, trickshot, title.

Gives a heavy hitting bunch all with 6 health, Vessery is durable, if poss save his focus for defence. the other 2 can deal damage.

5 minutes ago, Terminus-Est said:

Interesting — I've mostly flown the TIE/D Vessery list and found I needed a solid closer, given that Sabaac is disposable and Vess didn't always make it past the first few rounds of shooting. I think a fairly healthy Quickdraw can really shine in that role, in a way I haven't felt Ryad always does vs. higher PS (and maybe now stress).

That said, I like that your suggestion (and maybe also Vess/QD/OL) doesn't have as obvious a target order, which is the main downside of Nickdraw and its variants...will have to try this.

Ryad/Vessery/Deathfire won a couple of regionals early on in the season. It's where that Deathfire build came from and got picked up by other players.

...Fel's Wrath.

......what?

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

...Fel's Wrath.

......what?

...brilliant, you get them to waste their Clusters on Fel's Wrath, and then, er...

...*sigh*, I just can't do it.

Yeah, I'd go with Backdraft over Quickdraw. The PS is high enough to get your FCS lock before Vessery fires and his ability is potentially relevant for the whole game. With the points you save you can get an x7 Vessery with Adaptability and a fully loaded Vader. Or you can go with /D, Tractor Beam and Inquisitor, for example.

The more I play with the /sf the more I like it, but I'm also more and more convinced Backdraft, not Quickdraw, is the one you want to use.

When considering the 2 SF I personally prefer QD. In a recent regional I used QD with rage baffle, Ryad and Palp shuttle. I came up against Backdraft twice that day and in both games I killed him before he got to show me his rear and do any real damage. The downside of QD rage baffle is that it will not synergise with Vessery, a QD that relies on the other player shooting it to get the double tap may not happen when you want it to, like the first engagement where you want to down a ship quick to give you the upper hand.

My personal preference if using vessery would probable to rage baffle QD and then use a Quisy with AT, PTL and title to be a spotter with TL's.

I have to agree on preferring QD over Backdraft — Fangs are quite a thing in our tiny local meta, and *trying* to run away from Fenn has never worked well for me for long (I know, I know, git gud is probably the real answer here).

I've found even a non-baffled QD can also be quite powerful vs. TLTs; either he is ignored (in which case great), or can double-tap 2 or even 3 times.

YMMV, though!

I really like QuickDraw with Draw their fire, FCS, title and LWF. If you add in Targeting Sync and pair with Tomax it makes for a devastating alpha.

I would disagree here and recommend Backdraft for this list . I flew both of them and I think that Quickdraw is a better jouster while Backdraft is a better closer and this list will benefit more from a closer ship, I think.

I think you should aim for leaving at least 26 points for the third ship, this way you could either fly omega leader or duchess.

I'm not sold on expertise: it's definitely strong, but with asaji very common I feel like it's too risky for its cost.

At tatooine I've lost against the brilliant oldpara's adaptability quickdraw, vi vessery ion cannon and vi duchess. I think the way to go is high ps to capitalize on superior firepower and late game potential

Here's my last tournament list I did very well with. I really enjoyed flying it.

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Backdraft" (27)
Predator (3)
Collision Detector (0)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
Pattern Analyzer (2)

TIE Defender: · Colonel Vessery (35)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Tractor Beam (1)
TIE/D (0)

TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Stealth Device (3)
Comm Relay (3)

-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

I have flown a ton of Ves with quickdraw and pure sabbacc. It is basically a a jousting alpha strike list. The problem is that when one of the pieces dies (Ves or Quickdraw) the wheels fall off. Your games last like 30 minutes tops either way. You either blow everything up or get crushed quickly. I think this is an interesting build that can be successful but I don't see it being a meta staple. I am pretty much done with it but I encourage people to try it as it is crazy fun to fly! I once killed Bosk in one round of shooting

Omega Leader, hands down.
Even with just Juke you can win most endgame situations.

I like your Expertise Vessery. Can really do some serious damage with that and an Ion/Flechette cannon.

Deathfire is great in the list. I use him with Ion Missiles and Cluster mines. Allows to control a big ship and get perfect shots with the rest of your squad the following round. He also takes aggro off Vessery.

EDIT: And cluster mines make Fenn Rau scream like a little girl

I'm the imperial player who made top 4 at hoth with that list and I'm glad to see people like it! Imperials are most definatley not dead and the recent hit to palp (which isn't all that bad) has made the triple aces list one of the best choices for imperials. A few points on why I chose certain upgrades and ships:

Crackshot on Vessery was mainly to deal with Fenn Rau. Fenn can't take an evade, and with full mods, Vessery is usually rolling 3 damage, which gurentees fenn gets hit. That one damage from crackshot can turn the tide almost every game. My go too before this meta on Vessery was vi, but with the recent x7 nerf a lower ps defender is much better anyway.

Ps 9 FCS on quickdraw is AMAZING as you mentioned with vessery, and allows a lot of flexibility. You can screw up your initial engagement and as long as Quickdraw gets that shot Vessery gets his buddy lock.

I went with expertise because it is the easiest way to get full mods on both shots with quickdraw. Roll into range, target lock to get full mods and dare them to shoot you without a token. Assaj has been a problem with the stress, but Quickdraw with expertise turned off is still very dangerous, and if assaj is stressing Quickdraw Vessery is free to get his evade and other action.

When Quickdraw first came out I tried the self damaging baffle and rage build and deemed her pretty meh. But recently with the lightweight and pa out Quickdraw does not need to self damage to be good. Your opponent will strip the Shields for you, and if they don't WHO CARES you have a full health tanky ship shooting with full mods at ps 9 every turn.

I went with Omega for the reason a lot of you mentioned: There's no better end game ship. I've flown omega alot and for 26 points I couldn't pass up the reliability. With omega as long as I get her against one or even 2 ships in the end game, I have a very good chance of winning if I have enough time. (Unless shes against rebel regen, which those of you who saw my top 4 match know) Omega is also amazing against both fenn and assaj, so It was a great tool to deal with parattani. Omega is also mostly immune to stress.

Early on i tested both backdraft and strikers in place of omega and vessery, but I chose what I did because of their reliability. I wanted ships I could count on in my first large tournament, and I found strikers and backdraft to be more difficult to reliably do well with the practice I had. I am looking back into strikers and backdraft though, and I'm going to start trying tie D Vessery as well.

Also if your an imperial player in this meta, don't go the ptl route. I love my ptl aces, but they just don't cut it in this meta of stress control, and the need for constant damage. I had amazing results when I switched from ptl to the list I used.

Sorry for the long read but I hope I can give you guys some insight into the strengths of the cards I chose!

The Inquisitor (28) - TIE Adv. Prototype
A Score To Settle (0), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

I have been playing a Quickdraw, Vessery, Sabbac build recently. I run expertise on QD and Ruthlessness on Vessery (with Tie D and Tractor Beam). You need to be careful with Ruthlessness but it does give me some tools against Biggs and other tokened up aces. I also have the option of using Ruthlessness on myself to trigger Quickdraw. I used it to take out a very disappointed Dengar in one round the other day. 23 red dice against one ship made my opponent very salty (but I did get a lucky barrel roll that put Dengar into both of QD's arcs).

The nice thing is that all 3 of my ships are great target priorities.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/668757/sideways-v2

2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I like Deathfire, if anything it's Quickdraw I'm less sold on. Ryad/Vessery/Deathfire is solid.

deathfire? tell me more.

Deathfire, Conner Net, Homing Missiles, Extra Munitions, LRS (28)

You can sub in Concussions to save a point if you have to.

I've been running Quickdraw probably since January and at this point I have a very hard time running an Imperial list in a tournament without her because I think that she provides an answer to a lot of things that Imperials otherwise struggle with.

I actually run her hot these days (FCS, HM, GC, title) without LWF. LWF is great and I'm sure builds with that work, but Quickdraw, for me, is all about damage forward. Tossing on a Homing Missile has worked best for me because it turns the spot where she is weakest (R3) into a strength. It means that an opponent targeting her is facing modified 7 attack dice.

There are a lot of ways to build her, but it's no surprise here that there's discussion of a list I'd been running (and have now moved off of, which I will get to in a minute) and that's Quickdraw w/ Vessery and Deathfire, because QD (or a high PS FCS type ship) fits so well with Vess and leaving just a few options for remaining points. I've run Deathfire for the options and the list did well. However, since the FAQ, it hasn't been as effective. With TLTs becoming more prevalent and -especially with the return of Jumpmasters, Deathfire's PS just isn't as useful there (yes, he can typically get off one torpedo against a list like Jumpmasters, but at the same PS, it's not quite as good).

So, at this point, I'm exploring other options (and I have one I like that did well with that includes a Gamma Vet, Inq, and QD, but this post is getting too long already) that increase the overall PS even if it means losing an the flexibility that Deathfire gave. I also think including an AT ship is key since the few times the list struggled was against opposing TLTs. It's impossible to include all of those things, of course but I think that there are lot of good options to try out.

If you're not going with Deathfire or another Bomber, my first choice would probably be Pure Sabaac. Omega Leader is a great ship, and he's another option I'm looking at, but his damage is a bit less consistent, especially in the first exchange, than I like. At 26 points, he also has to finish the game by killing most other endgame ships and has trouble winning at time. There are exceptions and ships he can beat by getting half points, but that's the trouble I've had with him (especially lists that have Miranda and Corran if I can't get them early). EDIT: And it's hard to argue with the success at Hoth.

Something else that wants target locks to help Vess out? Tie. Adv. Proto (Inquisitor) or Omega Leader?

Yeah vessary + target lock mechanic is one of the power tools the imperials have right now. I do believe there are a few ways to spin this successfully

TIE Defender: · Colonel Vessery (35)

Trick Shot (0)

Ion Cannon (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)

Trick Shot (0)

Fire Control System (2)

Lightweight Frame (2)

Special Ops Training (0)

Targeting Synchronizer (3)

TIE Striker: · "Pure Sabacc" (22)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Lightweight Frame (2)

Adaptive ailerons (0)

-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

This is a fun one I've been trying, 4 dice ion cannon followed by a 4 dice primary is very nice and not hard to set up. Also quick draw us even scarier if the shot is obstructed. You can of course swap upgrades around, but I feel this allows everyone to do what they need to do and every so often, becomes gross with red dice.

Or this more control based version, less brute force, but very late game based

TIE Defender: · Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Ion Cannon (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)

Juke (2)

Comm Relay (3)

TIE Avanced Prototype: · The Inquisitor (25)

Push The Limit (3)

Proton Rockets (3)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/v1 (1)

-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

There are lots of styles this list cam go through, but vessary seems to be an awesome tool to build around