3 minutes ago, Democratus said:

Sadly, you can't put Engine Techs on a VSD.

Would be so cool if you could.

That is a VSD title that needs to be in the next campaign pack!

Its interesting to see if the quasar will kill the VSD since right now most people use it as a squadron pusher thats more cheaper than an ISD but gives flight controllers that a gozanti can't.

I believe the quasar will come in cheaper than a VSD but can also push more squadrons like an ISD but also have flight controllers?

3 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

Its interesting to see if the quasar will kill the VSD since right now most people use it as a squadron pusher thats more cheaper than an ISD but gives flight controllers that a gozanti can't.

I believe the quasar will come in cheaper than a VSD but can also push more squadrons like an ISD but also have flight controllers?

Most likely, but I'm guessing it'll also be a much more fragile platform than a VSD, without the same ability to deter enemy carrier-hunters...

I'm wondering if the quasar will be nerfed so it can't take flight controllers/weapons team upgrade?

Im also assuming it won't get offensive upgrade so you can't take expanded hangars, do you think?

Just now, ISD Avenger said:

I'm wondering if the quasar will be nerfed so it can't take flight controllers/weapons team upgrade?

Im also assuming it won't get offensive upgrade so you can't take expanded hangars, do you think?

Won't happen.

Then you'd be providing cards in the pack that it could not actually use. (Boarding teams)

Which is unheard of.

The only way that could happen, would be if its 3 titles granted those slots.

As if, for example - it had neither baseline... One Title Grants One. One Title Grants the Other. And one Title grants Both... Then it can technically be used.

But FFG has never put a Card in a Ship pack, that was unusable by said ship. In fact, its one of the few ways we can "Guess" at what slots the Ship has before it is revealed.

26 minutes ago, Hedgehogmech said:

Most likely, but I'm guessing it'll also be a much more fragile platform than a VSD, without the same ability to deter enemy carrier-hunters...

From what we can tell it has 6 hull, 2/2/1 shields, and a single brace and redirect token. The anti-ship batteries aren't great either.

I'm excited for the Quasar but it appears to be designed to be a heavy carrier and little else, which is great (assuming they price it correctly). The VSD is much more of a mixed-role ship that needs to overcome its maneuverability problem. Being speed 2 sometimes is a problem for me with VSDs but far more often I get problems due to the poor maneuverability. Jerjerrod or frequent nav commands are essential to unlocking its potential but it's still a ship that performs best when its upgrades are kept to the bare minimum required for it to succeed - I'll happily run naked VSD-Is (provided they aren't the flagship, which needs Tua+ECMs for sure) with Captain Jonus around and they do just fine for little 73 point murder-triangles.

Quasars to be escort carriers for small/medium base fleets

Victorys for those who want a cheaper battlecarrier option

Venators for the combat fleet carrier option

Go TeamVenator!

Some VSD carriers never see another ship let alone fire at one.

So having a cheaper medium base carrier at the cost of hull and shields flown in the same manner wouldnt seem so bad. At least on paper anyway.

I actually think VSDs make good gunboats to compliment arquittens with Vader. Slap on Spinals, Gunnery Teams and Concentrate Fire each time. Sadly its just hard to keep targets in arc

VSD1s are absolutely my favourite Anvil. I usually put spinals on them and nothing else. In my first CC campaign my vic had the most ship kills of all of my ships by a wide margin.

All you have to do is give the enemy the choice of facing your ISD1 short-rang pain-wallop, risk Demo threat range or fly towards that innocent looking VSD1 that everyone says is the worst ship ev...oh look you're dead.

well timed CF command and you have 4 red 4 black front arc. God help you if you are double arced. Usually by the time my victory hits its a "finisher". It doesn't always work with every fleet and I would hesitate to take it to a tournament but in casual play and CC they are fearsome and relatively cheap. When you pay 120pts for an ISDII that will be mostly shooting 4 reds, a well deployed (spynet ftw) and supported Vic 1 with spinals for 82 does much the same thing, on top of area denial.

It's not for everyone, no. And no it won't always work, but it's not a useless ship by any margin.

Even if I was given the option to put Engine Techs on a Victory, I don't think I would. Depends on what it takes to do so.

There's more to Support Teams than just Engine Techs, after all.

18 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

Some VSD carriers never see another ship let alone fire at one.

So having a cheaper medium base carrier at the cost of hull and shields flown in the same manner wouldnt seem so bad. At least on paper anyway.

I actually think VSDs make good gunboats to compliment arquittens with Vader. Slap on Spinals, Gunnery Teams and Concentrate Fire each time. Sadly its just hard to keep targets in arc

To address that top point, its true that absolutely does happen, but how much of that comes from the fact that the VSD can be dangerous game to hunt?

8 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Even if I was given the option to put Engine Techs on a Victory, I don't think I would. Depends on what it takes to do so.

There's more to Support Teams than just Engine Techs, after all.

VSDs with a support crew slot would be pretty amazing. Fighter Coordination + Flight Controller + Expanded Hangar VSDs would be a thing, for starters.

I honestly would give serious consideration to Nav Teams on VSDs in a Tarkin fleet and Nav Teams are not a very good upgrade most of the time.

10 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Even if I was given the option to put Engine Techs on a Victory, I don't think I would. Depends on what it takes to do so.

There's more to Support Teams than just Engine Techs, after all.

Instantly the best option for FCT's in the empire. YV-666's for everyone!

1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

VSDs with a support crew slot would be pretty amazing. Fighter Coordination + Flight Controller + Expanded Hangar VSDs would be a thing, for starters.

I honestly would give serious consideration to Nav Teams on VSDs in a Tarkin fleet and Nav Teams are not a very good upgrade most of the time.

If the Venator doesn't have what you just mentioned above, we should riot.

Onto the Victory: other ships can carrier better than it, but few can actually pump out the serious amount of dice and cost that cheap. It's the empire's multi-role capital ship, but I feel it's slowly but surely being surpassed for better options. The Quasar wont sink it, but the Venator will...depending on how it's set up. The Victory for the moment can be both carrier and gunship, but when the Quasar is sitting in the back throwing 5 squadrons down range, the Victory needs to be built more and more like an ECM gunship....yet when you're flinging squadrons of ties, you need Sloane not Jerry...so...it's...a give and trade sorta thing now.

Dad had a lot of fun flying a fleet of two Vics and a Impstar(I can remember which type) as a fleet backed up by some squadrons and of course Jerjerrod for maneuverability. Reinforced blast doors helped a good deal, too.

Now granted I was flying three CR-90s, a Flotilla, and an MC-30, but ****, those giant hunks of grey were pretty intimidating. Now against Assault Frigates or either MC-80, I can see Vics having a hard time. They earn their way by being bullies, but not in a matched slugfest.

As somebody who rus a lot of Victory lists, especially carrier ones, I too have begun to question what its role might be in a post Quasar world. There a ton of carrier options for Imps but i generally think of it as "Pure Carrier" and "Fighter Carrier"

Goz: Expanded or Boosted/Token

Vic: Expanded or Boosted/Token/Flight Controllers

These are pretty cheap for what they do. They don't get much dice into the fray so surely if you can shave 15-25 points off a pure carrier surely that's bargin? Especially since the Qusar could conceviablly take a Squadron Officer/Offensive Retro Fit/Flight Controllers and hiy Squadron 6!

But enter the the Fighter Carrier:

VSD/Tua/ECM/Titles

ISD I or II/Avenger/Flight Commander/Gunnery Team/Flight Controllers

The Fighter Carrier is what makes a lof of Imp Squadron lists tick. For Wave 5 tournies H9+Tua+Warlord has been straight up winning me games given its new resilience with ECM. Flight Commander is a solid addition the already proven ISD/Avenger/Rhymer mixes.

You've got an ISD with up to 4 small ships or you have a VSD with various mixses of Demo/Arquitens/Raider/Goz. You still need the ability to throw around dice! For example x2 VSD and x2-3 other ships/bombers is pretty solid. I hardy think replacing the x2 VSD with x2 Quasar would be as good.

But there are a few things going in the favour of the Quasar. If we go back the the previous exmaple of simply replacing our x2 VSD we could be saving the the regional of 20-30 points. There is a lot you can upgrade to or buy for this!

As for the Quasar what's really good about it is that it sits a 4 Squadron natural. This gives you the perfect Jendon/Shuttle Command you you can throw in Flight Controllers/Admiral Chiraneau. Four is great Squadron Number and the ability to get up to 6 with Flight Controllers/Fighter Officer for not ISD I price is bonkers!

Last, in a vaccum people say "rush it". If that is a serious suggestion I'd question your expierence in "just rushing" bomber swarms.

tl:dr Imp Squadron list rely on Fighter Carriers to do a lot of the combat. The need to throw these extra dice around will still exist with or without the Quasar. The Quasar itself is awesome because it has Flight Controllers and squadron 4-6 for less than a VSD/ISD I. This is nutty.

Oh yeah, Victories still rock! A Quasar doing the squadron lifting along side Victories? Why not both?

biggest problem the vic faces is smaller ships can get into its side and rear and take very little firepower back, i actually beleive those new missiles might be what the vic 1 needs

chances are it will only fire 1-2 shots a game so expanded racks for only 3 points are a steal. firing 5-6 dice out the side can make smaller ships avoid you altogether, even the rear will be 4+ dice.

and it can exert that threat while it drifts towards their slowest ship for a front shot, i feel the quasar might actually bring the vic a new role as its substantially cheaper than an ISD with not that much less firepower, 2 victories is expensive and slow and a vic and an ISD tend to fly badly in formation, but maybe a quasar and a vic showing it for protection and a backup carrier if it goes down? seems good to me and gives many more points

For all of the weaknesses I laid out in my last post about the VSD, I think the Quasar wants far less to be shot at with only two defense tokens. Even Needa can't protect the ship, because which defense token do you flip out? Both are valuable, at least a VSD can stand to trade one of the two evades. VSDs also have superior engineering to the QF's 2. Shields compare to the VSD, but the hull is a full two points lower. This thing really doesn't want to be shot at, even flotillas had scatter and Tua can make that scatter a certainty.

Another plus the VSD has over the Quasar is simply having bigger batteries and evidently a better weapons package. The VSD is still the biggest ship with a torpedo slot for something like Expanded Launchers and APTs. Though the VSD might often not get into close range of a target, it can make that target pay for getting too close, especially if Jerjerrod wills it so.

VSDs might find themselves as excellent boarding platforms because of their higher engineering and squadron values too!

If you are still looking for a VSD in the UK then check out http://www.reddicegames.com/miniature-games/armada-mini/victory-star-destroyer-expansion on sell till end of March (tomorrow night) for £20.65 last one in stock at that price.

7 hours ago, Norsehound said:

Another plus the VSD has over the Quasar is simply having bigger batteries and evidently a better weapons package. The VSD is still the biggest ship with a torpedo slot for something like Expanded Launchers and APTs. Though the VSD might often not get into close range of a target, it can make that target pay for getting too close, especially if Jerjerrod wills it so.

While I'm not a big fan of putting any of the current ordnance upgrades on VSD-Is (you just can't be too sure you'll get that much use from them), I think External Racks will be a strong candidate. VSD-Is get about one turn of black dice attacks in per game in my experience and so the External Racks are a cheap and very easy inclusion with that in mind.

1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

While I'm not a big fan of putting any of the current ordnance upgrades on VSD-Is (you just can't be too sure you'll get that much use from them), I think External Racks will be a strong candidate. VSD-Is get about one turn of black dice attacks in per game in my experience and so the External Racks are a cheap and very easy inclusion with that in mind.

I hope to god external racks find themselves in another expansion somewhere. I want several copies of that card.

3 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I hope to god external racks find themselves in another expansion somewhere. I want several copies of that card.

Just buy several hammerhead packs! Like I'm planning on doing!

10 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I hope to god external racks find themselves in another expansion somewhere. I want several copies of that card.

I think FFG will make more money off ER than TRC. And then they will print ER as a promo in like 2 years after everyone has 5.

6 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Just buy several hammerhead packs! Like I'm planning on doing!

Yeah but i want like 6 of them. I dont think i want 12 hammerheads