It's all about focus. Isawa's explorations into the physics of Rokugan (ie, the kami, small k) were the feet of the clan itself, the knee is the one that bent in service: the Shiba. One thing i really appreciate about Japanese/Rokugani magic is that it is similar to Native American Magic or Shamanism: one does not do the magic, rather, one beseeches natural forces (or supranatural forces, etc) to work through them, to be the 'hollow bone' through which greater power travels. sure, my clan is known for arrogance, but i think that comes more from time spent away from the uninitiated: we're like a clan of really smart and powerful Asperger's Sages protected by a family with a martyr complex: we just don't understand how to talk to the other clans. What is important to us: knowledge, the ability to apply that knowledge not only against the shadowlands, shadow and yobanjin, isn't necessarily of the same importance as another clan. a Hida on the wall isn't going to care for a treatise about elemental interaction- though his Kuni cousin might, but they're busy with other, more gruesome research that a Phoenix Shugenja would generally consider dishonorable or at least questionable: gross, in other words. So while it may be argued that the Crab are better at Jade/Crystal Magic than the Phoenix (or at least more practiced), it can also be argued that the phoenix are better at everything magical generally, with no deficiencies in any element because some Isawa somewhere has studied that particular Alternate Path or whatnot and has written about it, stored it in the library and died. the same could be said of the other Great Clan shugenja Schools- that they are better at other, more refined versions of a single element, like the Soshi of the Scorpion's ability to cast undetected is a superior benefit. But this is a rabbit hole i've already gone too far down thus far. I'm not even gonna talk about the CCG and the differences of magic between the clans- because frankly you all probably know already.
Favorite "what the . . . ?" elements
On 01/04/2017 at 5:36 AM, Shiba Gunichi said:Pfffft, I do it all the time, chop away!
In other news, I finally figured how to quote people decently! Learning the functions of a new forum after a migration... Always an adventure!
On 01/04/2017 at 5:36 AM, Shiba Gunichi said:Monks don't directly speak to the elements that make up all things... and I think that's why shugenja are supposed to be special- monks represent what any sufficiently dedicated mortal can achieve. As we both more or less agree, the setting has plenty else wrong with it, hence my contention that "anyone can do it" isn't stupid, but IS bad for the house of cards that is the L5R setting.
But that's the thing, I believe making the shugenja ability to manipulate the kami a matter of study instead of an accident of genetics helps the setting, making it a little less... rickety, might be a good word, I'm not sure. But there lies the difference of perception we have on the setting, I guess. As I said, Rokugan is (or should be ) a lot more wuxia, where this kind of thing might make more sense.
(Another advantage of this is getting rid of the "eta shugenja" conundrum. It always sounded extremely stupid to me...)
On 01/04/2017 at 5:36 AM, Shiba Gunichi said:Re: The Mantis and boats- the Phoenix navy doesn't even get MENTIONED, and after the War of Fire and Thunder, their sea lanes are choked off by the Mantis-claimed island (which was frickin' stupid, but, you know, whatever). The Crab, despite having those slimy slimy Yasuki and a willingness to be pragmatic and sully their hands with commerce have too many other concerns, or something. And the Crane are stinkin' rich.
I'm not sure I follow what you are saying. Sorry!
My point was (besides awfully "rambly"!) basically that the Mantis shouldn't be a threat to the Phoenix in the shugenja department, despite all the sh*tty stories where they, for some stupid reason, are... AEG and the directions they took the story, man... seriously.
On 01/04/2017 at 5:36 AM, Shiba Gunichi said:If they'd ever beaten another Clan outright, I might buy that... but if all the Phoneix do is read scrolls and pray at temples, then more than the Mantis and the Ox would have mugged them for real estate. Besides, the Henshin are the "study" bunch.
Again, not sure I understand... But I thought Phoenix was the "study" clan , no? That's what they do !
...and then use that study to open volcanoes!
On 01/04/2017 at 5:36 AM, Shiba Gunichi said:(With that said, why the base Dragonfly school isn't a Courtier school I'll never know, since they spent most of the setting's history politely telling people the Dragon didn't want to see them... we got a generic ronin school near the very end of 4E, but the Minor Clan Alliance continues to have almost no actual courtiers, even though they honestly need them the most.)
Heh, I absolutely agree. And the Tombo shugenja was specially stupid, let me tell you...
On 31/03/2017 at 9:50 PM, Kinzen said:
Wizards I can get in any fantasy RPG. Games that give me a well-crafted way to model the stuff I read about all the time in Japanese folklore and religion? Not so much. Ergo, my issue is less that I have anything against the wizard model per se, and more that I go, "oh, this again. Sigh."
Yes, I agree with that. But isn't the problem with the way shugenja is portrayed in the RPG the fact that they are already too "wizardy"? At least I remember the discussions around shugenja always getting at least a little bit on the "remember that shugenja are not a D&D Wizard!" train.
To which I say: obviously not! They are clearly D&D
Sorcerers
!
Or at least Pathfinder's
Arcanist
, given the fact that they are weird Wizard/Sorcerer hybrids, having to be born with the power but still needing arcane books.
So, I believe that making them not dependent of genetics to become priests the first step into "dewizardifying" the shugenja.
In first edition, the Yogo Curse meant that at some point in your life, you'd commit a terrible betrayal against the person or people you cared about most. Full-stop, that's the extent of the curse.
Later, the Yogo knew the exact moment the curse fulfilled. Let's set aside for a moment that this dramatically alters how the Yogo are perceived -- inherently untrustworthy and unapproachable vs. okay dudes if they've screwed up badly enough -- it means the Yogo can work to reverse the effects of the curse before it goes too far. Hell, logistically, the Yogo should be the finest puppy breeders in Rokugan, with a free one for every kid in the family. Why not?
The GM of my first campaign had our NPC bushi friend engaged to a Yogo . . . and then she "betrayed" him by unwittingly giving him a Tainted nemuranai as a gift. I call b.s.: for the curse to mean anything, I say they have to know that what they're doing is a betrayal and choose to follow through, not make a mistake and afterward find out that it was bad.
Is there a place to read the old lore?
Just now, SavageTofu said:Is there a place to read the old lore?
On 4/9/2017 at 0:35 AM, SirEuain said:In first edition, the Yogo Curse meant that at some point in your life, you'd commit a terrible betrayal against the person or people you cared about most.
This reminds me that a GM in my gaming group toyed around with the idea of subverting the Yogo curse to its kinda-opposite: instead of you betraying the person you love the most, the person you love the most is going to betray
you
. As I heard, this kind of high-octane paranoia fuel did not help the game too much
.
On 08/04/2017 at 10:04 PM, Kinzen said:The GM of my first campaign had our NPC bushi friend engaged to a Yogo . . . and then she "betrayed" him by unwittingly giving him a Tainted nemuranai as a gift. I call b.s.: for the curse to mean anything, I say they have to know that what they're doing is a betrayal and choose to follow through, not make a mistake and afterward find out that it was bad.
In canon, the Yogo curse is very broad. It has been known to be responsible for terrible mistakes, horrible errors of judgement and deliberate betrayals. All of them are actually quite interesting story-wise. And many Yogo are able to prevent the curse from happening as well, so it's not so much a certainty than a strong possibility.