yeah, i will be shocked if this ship doesnt start appearing in some very brutal lists.

Durability wise its spot on with the Lambda. Lambda is 21pts for 10hp behind 1 agility, while the Scurrg is 24pts. The dial alone should spike that things price higher than 3pts, especially considering lambda has largebase tax to deal with (which its one of the few large bases that actually DONT like being a large). Thats the reason nobody gawks at the durability of the Lambda because it simply cant abuse it with such a bad dial and large base - scurrg can. AND it has practically every upgrade slot available to it! No illicit and no crew/mech at the same time, but illicit is minor and since it cant take Unhinged anyway most people would probably prefer the crew (also the mech is unique).

While i dont think they will reach 3jump level ridiculous with the ordnance side of things, both due to narrower arc and jm5ks are still more durable with 9hp behind 2agi, they will still be brutal. I seriously, seriously hope this things dial is limiting enough to make spamming it a really bad idea, otherwise 3-4 surrgs will be everywhere.

Sure, maybe this ship will be better at dropping bombs than a tie bomber. However, after this wave drops you can fit 5 scimitars with unguided rockets and lightweight frame into a list.

So...I guess I don't see the problem here.

There is no doubt the Scurrg is going to be an excellent ordinance carrier even without having seen the new systems card and unique that's probably "bomblet generator" as seen on wookiepediA. This is good because Scum doesn't have a K-Wing level ordinance ship.

I really think FFG is scratching their head with the TIE Punisher because it's supposed to be the imperials K-Wing / Scurrg but isn't. I'm sure a fix is coming but I think they're being cautious as to what that is, they don't want to create a fix for the punisher that's too good and then have to fix the fix. Time will tell.

I suspect they give Unguided Rockets with LWF and maybe Mine Mapthingy some time to settle in on the Punisher before they do anything else with it.

Which makes me kinda sad because UGRs don't do anything at all for either of the named pilots and those are by far more interesting than the generics. And Mine Map probably won't do anything for Redline either, even if it does do something for Deathrain. Maybe Bomblet Generator helps Deathrain a bit (though I wouldn't be surprised if it's Scurrg only)? Maybe Cruise Missiles help Redline?

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

The power-creep in this ship seems to bear striking resemblance to the effects elicited upon our world by the Jump-master. I fear this ship too will borderline power-creep ridiculousness.

No. Not even close. The JumpMaster is as many as 5 points undercosted. This thing, at worst, is 2 points less than it could be. And, again, the Scurrg doesn't have a native turret or a white turn-around.

13 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

No. Not even close. The JumpMaster is as many as 5 points undercosted. This thing, at worst, is 2 points less than it could be. And, again, the Scurrg doesn't have a native turret or a white turn-around.

True, or.....maybe close.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Not really. 3 of them with TLT and Tactician or something similar will fit just as well as it did with K Wings. These will at least have a donut hole. You can fit three of them with any current turret upgrade and plenty of room to spare.

I think ABT is going to be really popular with these guys.

3 with TLT alone is 93pts. And you are wasting its 3die primary you are paying for.

No, this is one ship that shouldnt use a TLT. Ghost gets away with it both because doublefire and its wonky to fly due to large base and red moves, this thing has a 3Troll which indicates it will have a decent enough dial to fight up close - ABTs to middle finger those that dodge your arc will be best.

The pack comes with Synced and in some ways will be slightly better at it than the Aggressor because it has primary 3 - but I could see ABT being pretty good, and also making sense. In the original games the top turret was automated and would take pretty accurate potshots at any enemy ship who started getting in your space.

@Marinealver List of bombers

Actually taking the title on the Tie + Scavenger crane allows potentially for several bomb drops. If it is worth it, is another question.

The Tie Bomber never really was a bomber in this game, though. It only has one slot. It is a cheap ordnance carrier, though. I'm still very happy with the Tie Bomber and all the relative changes to ordnance that have come out. Unguided Rockets is just even better. I say the Tie Bomber has never been in a better place before.

5 x Scimitar Pilot w/ Unguided Rockets and Lightweight Frame

So how do we get Imperial Bombers and Punishers to make a splash?

Would it be too fiddly to create bomb modification upgrades? Putting a token on a tokens seems a bit... wrong but how about an upgrade that reads "When you drop a bomb, you may discard this card to place a _____________ token on that bomb." Here are some possible bomb modification tokens.

Ionization Charge- When this bomb detonates, all ships damaged by the bomb receive 1 ion token (in addition to other bomb effects.)

High-Yield Explosives- This bomb affects all ships at range 1-2 rather than range 1.

Remote Detonator- This bomb does not detonate at the end of the activation phase. Action- This bomb detonates immediately.

Precision Charges- When this bomb detonates, you may spend a focus token. If you do, all [eye] results rolled are immediately converted into [hit] results.

3 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

So how do we get Imperial Bombers and Punishers to make a splash?

The Tie Bomber will never really be a huge Bombing ship. It can have one slot and can use Extra Munitions. It really is a better ordnance carrier. It's a super cheap ordnance ship that can dish out some pain.

There is that new System in the H-6 that seems to be Bomb related. I'm thinking this will also be able to be used by the Tie Punisher and make it a viable Bomber. Also, Unguided Rockets makes the Tie Punisher worthwhile on it's own even without Bombs. It's got unlimited 3 attack dice every round. That will be good stuff. Throw in the new System and it will definitely have a place in the game.

The new system upgrade has something to do with placing bomb tokens during the initial force placement. Interesting but probably not super helpful for the Punisher.

2 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

The new system upgrade has something to do with placing bomb tokens during the initial force placement. Interesting but probably not super helpful for the Punisher.

If it allows you to place one token corresponding to each bomb upgrade that you have equipped at range one of an obstacle without needing to discard the bomb upgrade card it, the ability to close off lanes to your opponent might add enough utility to makeup for the shortcomings of the TIE Punisher.

There's not a lot of other ships that can take both a bomb and a system upgrade. The Punisher is the cheapest and the only one that doesn't require a unique card.

Here's all the ships (and their minimum cost) that I could think of with bomb and system upgrade slots:
TIE Punisher (21 points)
Scurrg w/Havoc (24 points, higher for Rebels)
B-Wing w/E2 and Sabine (25 points)
VX-100 w/Sabine (37 points)

58 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

The new system upgrade has something to do with placing bomb tokens during the initial force placement. Interesting but probably not super helpful for the Punisher.

23 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

If it allows you to place one token corresponding to each bomb upgrade that you have equipped at range one of an obstacle without needing to discard the bomb upgrade card it, the ability to close off lanes to your opponent might add enough utility to makeup for the shortcomings of the TIE Punisher.

I will contend that the ability to place Bombs before the match will be EXTREMELY useful....if done right. We don't know the rules, but I am thinking that it would be a significant advantage to someone who can do it. Don't underestimate the ability to place a bomb on the board after everyone has placed their units. Or...maybe before to block off areas. This could be a really big thing.

Combine the whole Bomb System thing with Unguided Rockets and I see a really effective ship on the table. They will plop out bombs ahead of time and then get reliable attacks each round. They will be considerably tanky, especially with Lightweight Frames. I think these two things will shake up the options for the Tie Punisher and make them viable.

30 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

If it allows you to place one token corresponding to each bomb upgrade that you have equipped at range one of an obstacle without needing to discard the bomb upgrade card it, the ability to close off lanes to your opponent might add enough utility to makeup for the shortcomings of the TIE Punisher.

If that's true that's actually pretty awesome. You can really limit enemy movement or even (in some cases depending on obstacle placement) force them to run over a bomb to get to you. As you said the punisher is the only ship that can use this upgrade relatively cheaply and on multiple ships in the same round.

Timing will be everything there. If its pre-deployment, then its largely pointless as you can easily avoid it. Post-deployment? that would be really annoying to have a choke you were planning on using get cut off and you cant reposition to fix it.

Generally bombs that werent dropped right infront of someone dont get hit, but they do force a sudden change of course.

2 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Timing will be everything there. If its pre-deployment, then its largely pointless as you can easily avoid it. Post-deployment? that would be really annoying to have a choke you were planning on using get cut off and you cant reposition to fix it.

Generally bombs that werent dropped right infront of someone dont get hit, but they do force a sudden change of course.

Limiting where people can go, even before they put their ships down can be important. Let's say you are facing off vs. Ghost and Biggs. They like to just coast along the edge. Put Mines on one side and then set up the other side to fit into whatever you need.

22 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

So....looks really solid all around, heck, maybe great; it'll have certainly a better dial than our struggling Punisher. Just another better ordinance carrier to punch actual "Bombers" further down the food chain? What the **** FFG??

Exactly my though when i saw it. Even better, they gave rebels access to another bomber. Yay!

19 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Exactly my though when i saw it. Even better, they gave rebels access to another bomber. Yay!

This.

The Punisher should have been THE ship of her Wave, not the overpriced almost. If FFG had any balls they'd sneak a card in this pack that fixed the Punisher but was almost useless to this ship; it wouldn't be the first time. But alas, I can't see it in the preview.

Just now, clanofwolves said:

This.

The Punisher should have been THE ship of her Wave, not the overpriced almost. If FFG had any balls they'd sneak a card in this pack that fixed the Punisher but was almost useless to this ship; it wouldn't be the first time. But alas, I can't see it in the preview.

Yeah, they gave everything to the Kwing (regen, slam, extra attack dices even on secondary weapons, TLTs, pwt, better dial, J!!!) and left the Punisher in it's miserable state. As if that wasnt enough they released an upgrade that greatly boost the power of bombs (Sabine) but gave it to Rebels.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

I will contend that the ability to place Bombs before the match will be EXTREMELY useful....if done right. Don't underestimate the ability to place a bomb on the board after everyone has placed their units. Or...maybe before to block off areas. This could be a really big thing.

I'm having a hard time swallowing this one. I know gameing nerds will same gameplay > logic, but it seems the storyline gets all mangled up when ordinance is placed prior to the game start. Wouldn't it be better to give a Bomber free movements prior to the enemy or mid-mat setup instead? It just seems odd for a ship vs. ship combat game....Epic? Sure, it's storyline and one faction usually has the mat to themselves pre-start, but this game is predicated on small ship skirmishes in open space that no one controls, correct?

31 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Exactly my though when i saw it. Even better, they gave rebels access to another bomber. Yay!

One. Literally one unique bomber.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Sabine as much as the next guy, but this is literally a single ship.

23 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I'm having a hard time swallowing this one. I know gameing nerds will same gameplay > logic, but it seems the storyline gets all mangled up when ordinance is placed prior to the game start. Wouldn't it be better to give a Bomber free movements prior to the enemy or mid-mat setup instead? It just seems odd for a ship vs. ship combat game....Epic? Sure, it's storyline and one faction usually has the mat to themselves pre-start, but this game is predicated on small ship skirmishes in open space that no one controls, correct?

Well, I think the idea is that one of your bomb ships (Specifically the H-6, Punisher or one of the rebel ships which can System+Sabine) is actually a minelayer in the historical sense, not just in the "drops mines in the middle of a fight" sense and via this system, you have already engaged the enemy in your minefield of choosing. Unless you both have Minefield Map, in which case this is your mutual no man's land minefield.

This is assuming it does what we think it does.