2 hours ago, Squark said:

Except the Punisher didn't. The Ghost and Phantom didn't. The ARC (flown by Galactic Civil war-era pilots) didn't. I guess the k-wing sort of did, but that was straight out of the source material. If what you suggest was true, all those ships would have tallon rolls and segnor's loops, but they don't. And it's probable that when the Wookie and Tie/Ag dials are released, they won't have those maneuvers either.

K-Wing is also from like, 5-10 years after ROTJ too, it's a New Republic not rebel-made ship.

1 hour ago, VaeVictis said:

Yes. It's called "Released after September 2015"

Everything else you said is nonsense, lol.

No. If that were true, the Punisher and Tie Advanced Prototype would have a tallon roll. The Ghost would have a s-loop. But those ships just have the classic k-turn. Maybe the pattern is coincidence, but it's one that's held up for the two years since FFG introduced the new maneuvers.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

This, well typed.

....logic would dictate maneuverability would be best in a light, fast fighter, NOT in Bombers or repurposed freighters. When designing Scum, FFG slips from Cannon and logic. And if you're gonna claim "superior retro alterations" then the d*** things should cost waaaaaaaay more since they're so unique and took so much energy to retrofit. Frankly, the illogic in this facet of the game is stunning.

I didn't say Scum ships were superior, I said their pilots were unorthodox. Since Imperial pilots all get their training form a standardized system of military academies, and many Rebel Pilots are defectors who trained in those same academies or received their training from defectors, they would focus on the same doctrine. Military doctorine strives for consistency and ease of application, so it makes sense that most Rebel and Imperial pilots would default to one maneuver*. Most Scum pilots, on the other hand, would be self-taught or washouts who didn't receive much training. These Pilots would have a variety of backgrounds, and might have learned different maneuvers. So where a mixed group of Rebel fighters would all execute k-turns, the hodge-podge training of Scum pilots would lead to a mix of s-loops, k-turns, and tallon rolls. Now, maybe if every ship could do every maneuver with varying degrees of difficulty, we'd have s-looping A-wings and t-rolling Squints, but at that point we're probably looking at an RPG, not a strategy game you can pick up and play out of the box.

Is this just me speculating as to why FFG gives Scum ships from the Galactic Civil War era s-loops and tallon rolls when it doesn't give them to Imperial and Rebel Ships? Well, yes, but "FFG gives all new ships fancy new maneuvers to make them better than the old ships" is also speculation, and I've already pointed out that recent releases have shown that isn't the case.

*Tactically questionable? In some cases, yes, but when have ideal strategy and tactics been thesole determining factor in military planning? History suggests that training costs, resources, and even romanticism can lead to otherwise valid tactics being dismissed.

Sidenote: The in-universe financial expensives of creating/modifying a ship should have no bearing on its point cost in game, or otherwise you've just needlessly kept a ship that could have been competitive from being so, when there are many other vectors the devs could use to emphasize the rarity or expense of such a ship/component.

10 hours ago, Squark said:

No. If that were true, the Punisher and Tie Advanced Prototype would have a tallon roll. The Ghost would have a s-loop. But those ships just have the classic k-turn. Maybe the pattern is coincidence, but it's one that's held up for the two years since FFG introduced the new maneuvers.

I didn't say Scum ships were superior, I said their pilots were unorthodox. Since Imperial pilots all get their training form a standardized system of military academies, and many Rebel Pilots are defectors who trained in those same academies or received their training from defectors, they would focus on the same doctrine. Military doctorine strives for consistency and ease of application, so it makes sense that most Rebel and Imperial pilots would default to one maneuver*. Most Scum pilots, on the other hand, would be self-taught or washouts who didn't receive much training. These Pilots would have a variety of backgrounds, and might have learned different maneuvers. So where a mixed group of Rebel fighters would all execute k-turns, the hodge-podge training of Scum pilots would lead to a mix of s-loops, k-turns, and tallon rolls. Now, maybe if every ship could do every maneuver with varying degrees of difficulty, we'd have s-looping A-wings and t-rolling Squints, but at that point we're probably looking at an RPG, not a strategy game you can pick up and play out of the box.

Is this just me speculating as to why FFG gives Scum ships from the Galactic Civil War era s-loops and tallon rolls when it doesn't give them to Imperial and Rebel Ships? Well, yes, but "FFG gives all new ships fancy new maneuvers to make them better than the old ships" is also speculation, and I've already pointed out that recent releases have shown that isn't the case.

*Tactically questionable? In some cases, yes, but when have ideal strategy and tactics been thesole determining factor in military planning? History suggests that training costs, resources, and even romanticism can lead to otherwise valid tactics being dismissed.

Sidenote: The in-universe financial expensives of creating/modifying a ship should have no bearing on its point cost in game, or otherwise you've just needlessly kept a ship that could have been competitive from being so, when there are many other vectors the devs could use to emphasize the rarity or expense of such a ship/component.

Or maybe FFG is trying to sell ships by making them interesting with either firing arc shenanigans or dial shenanigans.

The TIE Punisher fell through the cracks and look how popular that is.

The TIE Punisher is not used because it's too expensive, not because it's uninteresting.

On 3/29/2017 at 6:50 PM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Am I squinting right?

Is this thing only 1 more point than a B-Wing/E2 with better slots, same action bar, +2 Hull Points, and a still open mod slot? Plus all the inevitable bomb tricks?

Seriously, at this point just F$^# scum and how much they put to shame everything Rebel. Just see Scum Y-Wings with EPTs. Or compare a Contracted Scout to the more expensive ORS or WSF. Dengar has always been the best of Dash+Han with none of their weaknesses (PS9, 2 Agility, Barrel Roll) with better upgrade slots and a much better dial. Now this thing, embarrassing the B-Wing, apparently.

Sigh.

There are no "scum Y-wings with EPTs". There is exactly ONE scum Y-wing with EPT (KAvil) - but yeah, that EPT actually makes him quite viable in competitive play.

On the other hand - both dutch and horton can have EPT's via the astromech slot, while Drea Renthal (the second scum pilot) can't have EPt at all. I'd say both rebel named pilots and Drea needs some help here.

On 3/30/2017 at 9:44 AM, thespaceinvader said:

The B Wing is probably at least a point over costed at this stage, which is why nobody uses them.

Let me fix it for you:
"which is why a list with TWO B-WINGS made it to the final game on one of the american Open Series tournaments"

2 minutes ago, Voitek said:

Let me fix it for you:
"which is why a list with TWO B-WINGS made it to the final game on one of the american Open Series tournaments"

*almost nobody

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

*almost nobody

That is correct. But Blue Squadrons with FCS are still a very solid workhorse - sturdy, good action efficiency, and an unique ability to make a very short K-turn.

Surely they dont look as awesome when compared to K-wing or Scurrgs, but they are nowhere near being as useless as you imply. They are just very average ships.

Tried Y-wing with cluster mines and TLT and a U-wing with sabine, conner net and EM. Put R5 on the Y-wings and chopper and advanced sensors on the U-wing.

Thing about Y-wing is that TLT is still better even when I was able to net Whisper.

Still I think TLT-wings are jsut so good and at that 25 point you don't want to spend any more points filling the astromech and torpedo slots.