No, dropping bombs requires you to see where the enemy is and move to them without needing to react to them at all unless they move before you - and even then, you dial a move that points roughly in the middle of their options and SLAM the appropriate one.

And with TLT all you have to do is just not hit rocks.

Nerf U boats...

Nerf Palpatine...

Nerf X-7....

Result = TLTs

Whatever you 'nerf' & the next best thing will rise to the top.

So here are some of the possible fixes I'm hearing to put TLT on the power level it should be-

1. Make it range 3 only

2. move it to range 1-2 like the other turrets

3. Make it unique in some way (perhaps only 2 per list. Not sure this really catches the problem.)

4. Give range 3 ships range bonuses

5. straight up errata to the card ability. Some suggestions include only rolling the defenders agility value on attack, and rolling 1 less die each time you roll dice in a round for it.

9 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

And that my friend is their dark plan....

Certainly seems like it at times.

10 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

I think you are making the point that TLT is far too prevalent.

I personally hate them. Put it on a Ghost/Phantom and you are really taxing the game mechanics and playing something very different to a dogfighting game. It's a lot closer to 40k buckets of dice nonsense.

"Popular" and "annoying" don't necessarily equate to "broken", however.

19 minutes ago, Panzeh said:

TLTs are even better in epic.

Eh. Most of the TLT carriers are slow. . .you've got 3x6. Stay away until you can engage on your own terms. Then shove a banana in their tailpipe.

6 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

So here are some of the possible fixes I'm hearing to put TLT on the power level it should be-

1. Make it range 3 only

2. move it to range 1-2 like the other turrets

3. Make it unique in some way (perhaps only 2 per list. Not sure this really catches the problem.)

4. Give range 3 ships range bonuses

5. straight up errata to the card ability. Some suggestions include only rolling the defenders agility value on attack, and rolling 1 less die each time you roll dice in a round for it.

Make the second shot dependent upon fulfilling some condition (e.g. in arc, at range 2, have a TL)

Make it deal 2 damage if both shots hit and none if either misses rather than one for each.

5 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

"Popular" and "annoying" don't necessarily equate to "broken", however.

I long for the good old days, when Luke and R2D2 was considered broken and "too easy." Before the dark days, before the Empire.

Actually no, I don't.

13 minutes ago, Cailais said:

Nerf U boats...

Nerf Palpatine...

Nerf X-7....

Result = TLTs

Whatever you 'nerf' & the next best thing will rise to the top.

Actually U boats are still up there. So are x7s. Palp remains to be seen.

16 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

No, dropping bombs requires you to see where the enemy is and move to them without needing to react to them at all unless they move before you - and even then, you dial a move that points roughly in the middle of their options and SLAM the appropriate one.

And with TLT all you have to do is just not hit rocks.

I know. Bombing just completely dominated the meta, it has ever since the dark days of Wave 2. Those Firesprays and TIE Bombers winning Worlds. Paul Heaver completely helpless against Imperial bomb power.

All those kiddies with ice cream on their face, wiping us out with Seismic Charges... yeah, we called it X-Bomber for a reason.

Obviously I'm talking about K wings.

We are in a mete where Jumpmasters are top dog again, why are you guys crying for TLTs in such environment?

At this point TLTs are a counterable and healthy part of the game

2 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

We are in a mete where Jumpmasters are top dog again, why are you guys crying for TLTs in such environment?

At this point TLTs are a counterable and healthy part of the game

For reasons you might read the thread to understand better

Jumps can be dodged and usually find it difficult to shoot in the opening engagement. TLTs can't as easily and don't.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

For reasons you might read the thread to understand better

Jumps can be dodged and usually find it difficult to shoot in the opening engagement. TLTs can't as easily and don't.

And yet, Jumps are still higher then TLT spams.

2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

And yet, Jumps are still higher then TLT spams.

Because jumps are severely overpowered/undercosted as well. As noted in the big thread about just that, last week.

One thing being OP doesn't prevent others also being OP.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because jumps are severely overpowered/undercosted as well. As noted in the big thread about just that, last week.

One thing being OP doesn't prevent others also being OP.

Then why did you describe them as the lesser evil before?

I'm pretty sure the real reason tlt is the choice turret is because the other options are garbage.

Autoblaster? Fine but only r1 so not always a good choice

Dorsal? Weak.

Blaster? Awful

Ion? 5 points for 1 damage max if you hit and no effect on large bases until the second hit means tlt is an easy 1 point upgrade.

Once synched turret drops and gives an actually well costed, effective turret option I feel we will definitely see a decline in tlt.

47 minutes ago, Cailais said:

Nerf U boats...

Nerf Palpatine...

Nerf X-7....

Result = TLTs

Whatever you 'nerf' & the next best thing will rise to the top.

Some people just want a game of white x wings vs black x wings, with zero flavour, differences or fun.

3 hours ago, Azrapse said:

It's a point cheaper than HLC in theory, but in practice it isn't.

The TLT is undercosted by 1-3 points accounting for the ships that are able to carry it being overcosted by about the same amount.

The bare HWK isn't worth 16 points. Attack 1, Agility 2, 5 health and horrible dial.
The bare Y-wing isn't worth 18 points. Attack 2, Agility 1, 8 health and bad dial.
The bare K-wing isn't worth 23 points. Attack 2 turret, Agility 1 and 9 health, with the most limited dial in the game. (For 2 points more you get the Jumpmaster 5000. For 1 point less you get an Attack 3 B-Wing)

K-Wing has the most limited dial? Lol, the HWK says hi.

50 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

And with TLT all you have to do is just not hit rocks.

Yeah, no. If you're running massed TLTs you've got to fly your slow, cumbersome, low-PS turret-carriers close enough together that you don't have to split your fire or get picked off piecemeal but not so close together you can get doughnut-holed and wiped the **** out. You've got to be able to fly in formation and correctly time when to break apart. Oh yeah, and not hitting rocks helps too.

If you're flying a single TLT, you've got to be able to fly in such a way that you can split your opponent's fire and win the damage race, because your TLT carrier is eating a LOT of points in your list and there's basically nothing left in the meta you can win a straight damage-race with.

TLT might be a hair too strong as a card, but pretending that they're somehow "easy mode" doesn't help your argument.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

And then you have ghost with TLT, Miranda with TLT, Palob with TLT, etc... It's OP even on single ships.

Except it isn't. It's 2 points of damage (except on the Ghost) at range 2-3 on ships with very low agility. There's counterplay involved there.

It's when there's 4 of them with overlapping fields of fire, pushing out other turrets, that it becomes a problem.

I don't think a single TLT is OP. 4x TLT are dull both to play and play against. Despite Rodafowa's protestations TLT spam is a pretty easy list to fly. Of course it can be beat, but it doesn't require a lot of strategy to implement compared to other lists.

You guys do realize that nerfic TLT will just bring back fat han nonsense? That's even worse. TLT is fine. If your local area runs lots of TLT's then autothrusters should be a no brainer

2 minutes ago, Gibbilo said:

You guys do realize that nerfic TLT will just bring back fat han nonsense? That's even worse. TLT is fine. If your local area runs lots of TLT's then autothrusters should be a no brainer

I think there are more than enough counters to Fat Han nowadays. He would not be the boogity-man he once was even if TLT is banned.

14 minutes ago, Gibbilo said:

You guys do realize that nerfic TLT will just bring back fat han nonsense? That's even worse. TLT is fine. If your local area runs lots of TLT's then autothrusters should be a no brainer

So then we need Fat Han, and everyone plays Phantoms. Then we nerf Phantoms, and everyone plays Biggs walks the Dogs or TIE Swarms...

18 minutes ago, Gibbilo said:

You guys do realize that nerfic TLT will just bring back fat han nonsense? That's even worse. TLT is fine. If your local area runs lots of TLT's then autothrusters should be a no brainer

Fat Han still dies to alpha strikes, and has no regen. We also have autothrusters and better ships to fly against him.