I'm more than willing to hyberbole it to 11, but it holds true despite the hyperbole.

It needs to be nerfed.

I don't know if it needs to be nerfed, but for its consistency of damage output (particularly when coupled with a Ghost or multiple carriers in a single list), a points increase might be in order.

That said, I had the Inquisitor take on a TLT Ghost single handed the other night and win (Vader and OL went down but helped get rid of Biggs before they did). Between all the tokens, autothrusters and some amazing dice; the Ghost just couldn't land the hits and was able to pummel the Ghost consistently.

Ooh, welcome back to 2015.

Anyway. Doom. Gloom. Grumble. Curse. Mutter. There, said my piece. FFG is watching. If TLT roams the earth it will see the business end of a nerf. Been preying on ghost doubled TLTs with T65s back home, so it's not impossible. Just kinda sucks though to face a lot of them.

Anyway, I'd much rather fly than grumble about what I don't like.

1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

Ooh, welcome back to 2015.

The Wheel turns.

Another complaint thread.

I've beaten a 100 point Thug Life qud-TLT list with a single 39 point ship in a concept game. Guri was actually good. TLTs are very easy to counter with a properly built list. The strategy is: kill the escorts while protecting your arc-dodging ace, than solo the TLT in the endgame with said ace. They're a stupidly powerful upgrade, but also very easy to beat.

13 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

I don't know if it needs to be nerfed, but for its consistency of damage output (particularly when coupled with a Ghost or multiple carriers in a single list), a points increase might be in order.

That said, I had the Inquisitor take on a TLT Ghost single handed the other night and win (Vader and OL went down but helped get rid of Biggs before they did). Between all the tokens, autothrusters and some amazing dice; the Ghost just couldn't land the hits and was able to pummel the Ghost consistently.

I'm confident we won't see a points increase. They haven't done one yet, even during the most recent wave of nerfs.

I will not be surprised if they do a text change, though. The only question is what could they do that would be fair without killing the card? Adding a bonus evade die for R3 might do it, or removing a red die against targets at that range.

What about the second attack can only occur in arc? Or if you perform the second attack, a weapons disable token is assigned for the next round (even if only against the TLT and not your primary/other secondaries)?

That would certainly make using it a bit more of a decision, which is what FFG seems to be going for at the moment.

Donut hole, same as Dash.

Focus fire.

Remember that rocks work against both shots.

'git gud'

GUNBOAT!

It's been just over a fortnight since everyone screamed murder about the Great Nerfing.

Now, you are begging for a nerf?

Gawd, I'm glad I just play for fun.

6 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

What about the second attack can only occur in arc? Or if you perform the second attack, a weapons disable token is assigned for the next round (even if only against the TLT and not your primary/other secondaries)?

That would certainly make using it a bit more of a decision, which is what FFG seems to be going for at the moment.

That would shoot R3-A2 dead.

As others have said, they are a pain in the butt to fly against but beatable. I view them as I do Soontir Fel: beatable but a pain. I think a lot of the problem is guys don't adjust their style of play when they face TLTs.

6 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Donut hole, same as Dash.

That's right. All you need is R1 and a banana.

TLTs are very easily defeated by any PTL AT user. I've had games where I took out 4 TLTs with 1 Soontir w/o any damage on him, I've had games where my non-PTL brobots took out 4 TLTs while taking only 2 damage in total for the entire game.

they are a necessary corner of the balance triangle, whereby anything that defeats PTL aces easily will be defeated fairly easily by the TLT.

3 minutes ago, Duraham said:

TLTs are very easily defeated by any PTL AT user. I've had games where I took out 4 TLTs with 1 Soontir w/o any damage on him, I've had games where my non-PTL brobots took out 4 TLTs while taking only 2 damage in total for the entire game.

they are a necessary corner of the balance triangle, whereby anything that defeats PTL aces easily will be defeated fairly easily by the TLT.

This is also a good point, as TLTs are basically the only thing that knocked Fat Han out of the meta.

7 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

That would shoot R3-A2 dead.

As others have said, they are a pain in the butt to fly against but beatable. I view them as I do Soontir Fel: beatable but a pain. I think a lot of the problem is guys don't adjust their style of play when they face TLTs.

Well, judging by a lot of complaining I'm seeing on Reddit all of a sudden, some people want that. Not really sure why, the point is that you'd like not to be double stressed, and it's a pretty easy fix - "Inspiring Recruit".

TLTs can be countered and beaten with good skill.

We need TLTs around, because eventually they will not win major tournaments.

And winners requires losers.

1 minute ago, UnitOmega said:

Well, judging by a lot of complaining I'm seeing on Reddit all of a sudden, some people want that. Not really sure why, the point is that you'd like not to be double stressed, and it's a pretty easy fix - "Inspiring Recruit".

TLTs came out with the K-Wing, right? If the complaints are only showing up on Reddit now I have to assume those are relatively new players. They were once hailed as THE answer to Fat PWTs. People are never happy.

13 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

That would shoot R3-A2 dead.

No, it wouldn't. There are other options for R3-A2 besides a TLT BTL Y-Wing.

It's unfortunate that the type of ship TLT's seem to be made for attacking (aces) have the best tools to avoid them (token stacking, high agility, and most importantly auto thrusters).

Which means all non-ace ships are often taking an automatic 2 damage each turn.

I wish auto thrusters were available to more ships. It's such a powerful upgrade for only 2 points, and arguably the ships who can take it need the extra defense less than most other ships

1 minute ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

No, it wouldn't. There are other options for R3-A2 besides a TLT BTL Y-Wing.

And if I don't fly the BTL-A4? No second shot from the TLT if out of arc. Weapon disabled for following round. HWK290 loses a lot of usefulness. No other turret has a range 3 attack.

If you think TLTs are bad, wait for the unguided rockets! There will be a lot of weeping then.

I think TLTs are fine, they are just a tad to cheap, and the real problem of that is that there is no reason to take any other turret besides Autoblaster. This follows the same logic that FFG used to nerf the previous cards, too much benefit for too little cost. I've heard this suggestion, and I really like the idea of changing the rules regarding secondary weapon turrets to allow for Range defense bonus (or simply changing the TLT card to add a green die at R3). I think that would be just enough to make the card be a 6 cost card, rather than an 7-8 as it is right now. It doesn't need a nerf hammer, just a slight tick down the ladder.

14 minutes ago, Talamare said:

I'm more than willing to hyberbole it to 11, but it holds true despite the hyperbole.

It needs to be nerfed.

TLTs are a tough case because they require little skill to use, but aren't too great a challenge for seasoned players to deal with. I find them to be okay the way they are, but I've played with and against them many times.

I don't know if you should have to be a seasoned player in order to play X-Wing without TLTs wrecking your day, though. For the sake of entry-level players, a slight mechanical nerf seems appropriate.

7 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

I think TLTs are fine, they are just a tad to cheap, and the real problem of that is that there is no reason to take any other turret besides Autoblaster. This follows the same logic that FFG used to nerf the previous cards, too much benefit for too little cost. I've heard this suggestion, and I really like the idea of changing the rules regarding secondary weapon turrets to allow for Range defense bonus (or simply changing the TLT card to add a green die at R3). I think that would be just enough to make the card be a 6 cost card, rather than an 7-8 as it is right now. It doesn't need a nerf hammer, just a slight tick down the ladder.

The other turrets are really quite bad as the primary means of attack. Even the autoblaster turret is bad as the primary means of attack for a ship. The thing is, dropping 2 points on a ghost is not a huge investment for something to keep the aces honest. Dropping 2 points for the same thing on an 18 point Y-wing is much more of an investment.

True, but I think when the designers first made turrets as upgrades, they never intended them to be your primary damage dealer. I think they were intended to be powerful but situational. As it stands, the TLT is so good, it shuts all of the other turrets except Autoblaster, mainly because it is the cheapest (and it's effect is brutal when it triggers). I would like to see more variance in the turrets. Like with the new turret coming out, you need a TL, which in many cases (especially with the opening joust for a low PS) is going to be hard to do, when TLT are just easy street. What I am trying to say is that the designers work hard on these turrets, that no one will use. LOL. If they slightly nerf TLT, so it is still solid, it might allow some other turrets to rise to the top and be used again.

1 hour ago, Talamare said:

I'm more than willing to hyberbole it to 11, but it holds true despite the hyperbole.

It needs to be nerfed.

If it was destroying the game, I think the game might have died before Wave 11 was announced. TLTs came out with the K-Wing sometime in 2015. You're looking at four waves, a new core set, a new epic and a veterans pack. I wouldn't think this was indicative of a game being destroyed.