In the voice of Dr Evazan "you'll be dead" in 4 turns haha

49 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Give me four turns and I can easily generate 7 resources.

You'll have generated 8, spent them though, always the future is hard to see.

I think realistically Rey is not needed, as I posted in my other thread I think you simply take a standard build of Poe/Gun/Gun and sub out 1 of the hired guns for Maz, bring in fast hands and a few more guns and your set.

As for resources, with Poe you only ever need to get to 3 to get the falcon in to play, then you can loop for 5 turns and boom 10 resources so resources aren't the problem.

If you get to the point where you can build Maz up with a cunning and a gun like DH44 etc. you can basically kill your opponent without them having a turn. If you manage to get fast hands as well on Maz you have virtually locked your opponent out of the game.

Rey just lets you claim without ever giving the opponent the action to possibly remove the Cunning die.

13 minutes ago, gokubb said:

Rey just lets you claim without ever giving the opponent the action to possibly remove the Cunning die.

But how do you consistently trigger ambush on Rey every turn?

Maz with Fast hands Cunning and a gun can resolve damage and jump about 40% of the time before your opponent gets an action every turn without any other input. The other 60% of the time you still get to resolve the gun damage and jump the following action. If they remove the cunning die with their action you just roll in the falcon and get the same effect.

You build the exact same way and just include Infamous and Holdout and probably Hunker Down instead of other damage dealers. Between the extra Fast Hands and DL-44 and two Scavenge, you get eight ambush turns before you've gotta worry.

The nemesis of the deck is Jango. His react activation let's him capitalize on the ~40% of times you don't hit Focus or Cunning special.

I haven't played either buildout yet to see which is better. My gut says Rey just because it protects against Jango. I don't think Poe brings more to the table than her. And, with Rey, you get to run tri-color.

I think if I ever run an event I'll just soft ban Hyperspace Jump. Problem solved.

WAAAGH is against fun. Destiny solitaire with Rey is a thing now.

11 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Give me four turns and I can easily generate 7 resources.

Four turns are quite a lot.

12 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Give me four turns and I can easily generate 7 resources.

Indeed, especially since you're not having to do it all at once - the hard part is getting falcon out.

Man i love these theory craft post... "give me 4 turns and every single card i need, and my opponent doing nothing to me and killing none of my characters in those 4 turns and i will create the worlds sickest combo!!!"

By the exact same logic to create this uber scenario i got out my AT-ST and rolled a special to kill your falcon... hell that takes less resources and less needed cards in hand to accomplish.

If you had every single card you needed, you're set-up on turn 2. I think turn 4 is probably just an average of when the Falcon and Cunning will be on table.

The point of the discussion is that if this deck can be built to be tier 1, then it ruins enjoyment of the game. The combo is an obvious design failure and creates a solitaire game experience once it gets locked in.

If you kill Maz by turn 4, great, you probably win. But, if you get around a Guardian Trooper, Draw Attention, mitigation and Field Medic consistently, then you've probably found some other abusive multi-action dump that also makes the game a pretty bad experience.

1 hour ago, gokubb said:

If you had every single card you needed, you're set-up on turn 2. I think turn 4 is probably just an average of when the Falcon and Cunning will be on table.

The point of the discussion is that if this deck can be built to be tier 1, then it ruins enjoyment of the game. The combo is an obvious design failure and creates a solitaire game experience once it gets locked in.

If you kill Maz by turn 4, great, you probably win. But, if you get around a Guardian Trooper, Draw Attention, mitigation and Field Medic consistently, then you've probably found some other abusive multi-action dump that also makes the game a pretty bad experience.

I think such a deck only creates a bad experience if it can pull of combos consistently. If it struggles to do so, or does so only 1/3 of the time, then it's not going to be a NPE for the other guy. They'll have a decent, maybe better, shot of winning the majority of times, when the combos don't go off. I think most of the cards are well-balanced. Yeah you can get amazing, game-ending combos, but you have to work for it and get super lucky. Or you can be consistent and grind away. It's all about play style, but neither is more powerful than the other.

31 minutes ago, Network57 said:

I think such a deck only creates a bad experience if it can pull of combos consistently. If it struggles to do so, or does so only 1/3 of the time, then it's not going to be a NPE for the other guy. They'll have a decent, maybe better, shot of winning the majority of times, when the combos don't go off. I think most of the cards are well-balanced. Yeah you can get amazing, game-ending combos, but you have to work for it and get super lucky. Or you can be consistent and grind away. It's all about play style, but neither is more powerful than the other.

The consistency of the deck with the addition of Maz and fast hands creating entire turns where you can resolve a damage/discard die and jump without actually letting your opponent have even 1 action is the concern. The only thing you actually need to lock your opponent out is falcon and jump and you can jump for a couple turns to dig for the rest of the components.

Currently the deck requires at least 3-4 action to do any damage/discard to affect your opponent, this entails :

1 roll in falcon/cunning

2 Roll in Launch bay

3 resolve launch bay

4 jump

Now its 1 - 2 actions:

1 Roll in Maz with Cunning, Fast hands + a gun, resolve 3 dice immediately, if you rolled a focus on Maz or a special on cunning (about 44% chance of either of these happening) you can resolve the gun die and jump without your opponent getting an action at all

2 worst case scenario you didn’t roll focus or special on action 1, but you still resolved your gun die action 1, action 2 you claim and jump this turn.

You can win with your opponent only ever getting a maximum of 1 action each turn. Only if you opponent can remove the cunning die followed by the falcon die on their next action can your opponent get a full turn.

The decks main downfall is early resource disruption and can shut the deck down completely if you can't get to 3 resources to play falcon out with Poe's special and the throne room.

The Irony being that the arguably best deck in the format Han/Rey just doubled its chances of stripping resources before you get an action T1 thanks to the Vibroknife.

I think the deck has the potential to be consistent enough to be tier 1, however as long as Han/Rey is about the deck will be playing in a field with a hard counter which is never viable for high level competitive tournaments.

Should the meta evolve to some form of anti Han/Rey deck then Hyperloop might actually see some play, a see-saw effect of Hyperloop and Han/Rey ebbing and flowing in and out of the meta.

Either way the NPE of any opponent not playing Han Rey is much higher now.

Long Con breaks the Disrupt ability. You can ambush Long Con and play Falcon without opponent getting an opportunity for any disrupt. Sure, it requires seeing both Long Cons, but they gave you the answer to disrupt along with Maz. Kinda like they wanted this deck to happen.

It's a bit unfair that I haven't play tested yet, but for the most part it seems that you are adding more combo's and complexities. Which makes them great fun to pull off but far less safe in terms of probabilities. You have cards on Maz, cards to keep Maz alive and then the whole Hyperloop kit. That to me seems far more random that I would like.

There are many decks right now, before we add in cards from SoR that are doing enough damage each turn to only give Maz two turns most games.