If this were a regular show and not a prequel Thrawn would be far scarier and the losses seen here would seem even worse then they are.

That said if Thrawn is to return next season then he needs to pile on victory after victory. Even if he himself is defeated at some point, if its before Scarif he still technically has to win the battle.

The only thing that sated my anger was that the Bendu was attacking everyone, but especially tried to merc Kanan. I can agree that Thrawn can be too smug this season. Then again, he was recently promoted to Grand Admiral and everything has been going just as planned up until this point. I hope we get more of that majesty of the character in Season 4 and the upcoming book. Overall I really enjoyed this episode!

1 hour ago, Milienius said:

The only thing that sated my anger was that the Bendu was attacking everyone, but especially tried to merc Kanan. I can agree that Thrawn can be too smug this season. Then again, he was recently promoted to Grand Admiral and everything has been going just as planned up until this point. I hope we get more of that majesty of the character in Season 4 and the upcoming book. Overall I really enjoyed this episode!

Thrawn is my favorite character, that being said, I hope he's not the imperial villain next season. I'd rather this be the rebel defeat, forces them to ground and back to basics while Thrawn is reassigned to a new sector with a larger rebel presence.

I'd like to see not yet Admiral but Captain Sloane enter as the new adversary, she is still allowed failure from time to time where Thrawn (to remain his amazing self) isn't allotted that luxury.

I feel the Rebels need their victories to come from gathering forces and allies, not combat. Gaining X-Wings would be a start, freeing or taking in as refugees (depending how it goes) Mandalorians.¹ I think rebel offenses need to be heavily limited from here out. Morale has to be at an all time low, especially after what had to be such a high point not a few hours earlier.

This is a good point to introduce the Mon Calamari, the new B-Wing production line, upgrading the (remaining) A-Wings.

1. Off topic: I think if there will ever be dual faction releases for Armada, civil war era Mandalorians are the best option. It gives both sides their Mandalorian fix, fits in as mercenaries, allows for new ship designs to fill roles as needed.

I think Scarif is the next major battle of the civil war. We may have skirmishes here and there, enough to let the Empire know theres a persistant galactic resistance but with the crew on Yavin I imagine we'll see mostly sorties and raids but nothing bigger as to let the rebels amalgamate back to larger levels.

I wonder how long til we see Cassian and K2 I wonder?

Toally agree though, I hope Thrawn is reassigned and Zahn gets to write his end in the books. Thrawn is his character and I believe he has the right to be the one who kills him off. Seeing Sloane win and lose would be nice as I dont care nearly as much if her reputation is tarnished.

22 hours ago, Irokenics said:

I find it strange that Thrawn is all hyped up to be this brilliant tactician and Hera throughout the episode correctly predicts his next moves.

Perhaps she is the real brilliant strategist!

Aww ya! That was my girl! Through and through!

Sad to see Commander Sato go. Happy Kallus made it. My girl stomped as usual. Overall a fantastic episode! Nerved out the entire time. I thought for sure we were going to lose Rex and Zeb. Kanan makes me nervous. Same with Ezra.

Best line of the show: May the Force be with me!

Hooyaw!

2 hours ago, Forresto said:

Seeing Sloane win and lose would be nice as I dont care nearly as much if her reputation is tarnished.

It's not so much a tarnished reputation, but a counter to the arrogant wannabe Thrawn (but fails miserably) that was Konstantine. Sloane could be that reasonable and threatening Imperial officer who got to where she was through skill rather than who she knew. As long as she can fail without looking like a keystone cop, she'll be a competent threat and keep the Empire a force to be resisted.

Dang, Disney Star Wars has a love affair with ramming!

Fun episodes, though. We see that Thrawn is a brilliant strategist, but as a tactical commander he isn't able to handle the unexpected (a specialty of the Rebels).

2 hours ago, Democratus said:

Dang, Disney Star Wars has a love affair with ramming!

Fun episodes, though. We see that Thrawn is a brilliant strategist, but as a tactical commander he isn't able to handle the unexpected (a specialty of the Rebels).

He prepared well for the unexpected but his subordinates didn't follow his orders and let's be fair no one would have expected a force God to show up.

I need some clarification. I haven't seen this past season due to money issues.

i keep seeing people talking about bringing the Mon Cal in... I thought I saw in previews that they were already in. The behind the scenes videos of "Secret Cargo" showed MC-80's in the fleet that showed up over Dantooine after Mon Mothma's speech. Was that not actually in the episode?

I mean that looks like a Home One style MC80:

It was indeed a Home One style MC80. It implies that they were willing to show up for the meeting, but does not indicate the level of involvement at this point.

It was the Home One.

16 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

It was indeed a Home One style MC80. It implies that they were willing to show up for the meeting, but does not indicate the level of involvement at this point.

Ah, okay.

so has there been an indication that they are wavering on joining, or is it a potential story they could explore next season?

28 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

I need some clarification. I haven't seen this past season due to money issues.

i keep seeing people talking about bringing the Mon Cal in... I thought I saw in previews that they were already in. The behind the scenes videos of "Secret Cargo" showed MC-80's in the fleet that showed up over Dantooine after Mon Mothma's speech. Was that not actually in the episode?

I mean that looks like a Home One style MC80:

That was the initial meeting of all the groups. In the episode proper Mon Mothma says the alliance doesn't have anything to send to help.

I just finished watching both episodes again and in part II when the Rebels are fleeing Chopper base for the last time you see a Braha'tok gunship taking off in line with a Hammerhead and a CR-90 Corvette. The Hammerhead did look smaller than the CR-90 but the Braha'tok looked nearly the same size as the CR-90.

I know Wookipedia says 90 meters under the Legends category and unknown under Canon. Does anyone else think this ship is going to close to the same size as the CR-90?

I'll be honest, I don't care how good he was in his original books, I think people need to stop expecting so much of Thrawn. Having an extremely competent Imperial leader is a good thing. Having an unbeatable mastermind of the battlefield who can do no wrong is bad writing, especially since he won't get a personal story-line where he can show flaws like the heroes.

I think Rebels is doing a good job of Thrawn, as a extremely competent Imperial leader. He has flaws in his plans, like all Imperials, but tactically and strategically he is a master. He probed the Atalon cell all season, learning all he could of their tactics and personalities. He used their mole against them to pinpoint their location and control the information they received. He arrived with overwhelming force and a sound strategy. He won the battle. He didn't decisively end the rebellion, an absurd notion to begin with, but he saved the defender factory and forced the abandonment or destruction of much material.

Where his plan failed, where he failed, was entirely in his failure to grasp the political situation of his subordinates. Thrawn appears to be a loyalist. Everything he does is for Palpatine. Konstantine was not. He was a glory hound. Thrawn KNEW THIS, and failed to give Konstantine any opportunities for such. Konstantine should have been in control of the vanguard ISD, allowed the chance to destroy the Rebel capital ships that attempted to break the blockade. Instead he was intentionally and rudely kept in the rear, allowed no participation in the battle other than the initial escape attempt. Were Thrawn a good politician he would have given Konstantine a share of the credit. Instead he has constantly used him as bait and as a glorified scout. And in the end he gave him duties not befitting an Admiral and it cost him his complete victory. If you are going to keep a high ranking subordinate around in the Empire you need to work their personality into your plans, give them something to do, some glory to win, a chance for accolades.

shrug

6 minutes ago, codegnave said:

I'll be honest, I don't care how good he was in his original books, I think people need to stop expecting so much of Thrawn. Having an extremely competent Imperial leader is a good thing. Having an unbeatable mastermind of the battlefield who can do no wrong is bad writing, especially since he won't get a personal story-line where he can show flaws like the heroes.

I think Rebels is doing a good job of Thrawn, as a extremely competent Imperial leader. He has flaws in his plans, like all Imperials, but tactically and strategically he is a master. He probed the Atalon cell all season, learning all he could of their tactics and personalities. He used their mole against them to pinpoint their location and control the information they received. He arrived with overwhelming force and a sound strategy. He won the battle. He didn't decisively end the rebellion, an absurd notion to begin with, but he saved the defender factory and forced the abandonment or destruction of much material.

Where his plan failed, where he failed, was entirely in his failure to grasp the political situation of his subordinates. Thrawn appears to be a loyalist. Everything he does is for Palpatine. Konstantine was not. He was a glory hound. Thrawn KNEW THIS, and failed to give Konstantine any opportunities for such. Konstantine should have been in control of the vanguard ISD, allowed the chance to destroy the Rebel capital ships that attempted to break the blockade. Instead he was intentionally and rudely kept in the rear, allowed no participation in the battle other than the initial escape attempt. Were Thrawn a good politician he would have given Konstantine a share of the credit. Instead he has constantly used him as bait and as a glorified scout. And in the end he gave him duties not befitting an Admiral and it cost him his complete victory. If you are going to keep a high ranking subordinate around in the Empire you need to work their personality into your plans, give them something to do, some glory to win, a chance for accolades.

shrug

One could also argue that Thrawn successfully removed a Politically Compentent but Militarily Incompetent Admiral from Command of a Sector Fleet, where that subordinate position could now, at least potentially, be filled with someone Militarily competent.

Political Officers are very difficult to otherwise remove from their commands.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

One could also argue that Thrawn successfully removed a Politically Compentent but Militarily Incompetent Admiral from Command of a Sector Fleet, where that subordinate position could now, at least potentially, be filled with someone Militarily competent.

Political Officers are very difficult to otherwise remove from their commands.

True, but that was clearly not his intention. And if it was it cost him his complete victory and an Interdictor and its compliment.

Just now, codegnave said:

True, but that was clearly not his intention. And if it was it cost him his complete victory and an Interdictor and its compliment.

Again, play the long game.

Even taking out Dodonna, there's no complete victory - Mothma is still out there at large, too. I think he was willing to take what he got this time...

And Imperial Losses? He's shown in the past (by his very introduction) that he cares not for what it takes to get the Job Done.... Imperial Losses, Insurgent Losses... Get. The Job. Done.

He's not a flawless Mastermind. But I certainly consider him a Chessmaster, and I do make the assumption that he would be capable of thinking on a level "beyond" what I can be shown in-universe... And even I wouldn't put that sort of gambit beyond him.

We'll see where Season 4 takes us.

Honestly, his reaction to Konstantine's failure tells me he didn't plan that. He would not have put himself in charge if he wanted half victory.

51 minutes ago, codegnave said:

I'll be honest, I don't care how good he was in his original books, I think people need to stop expecting so much of Thrawn. Having an extremely competent Imperial leader is a good thing. Having an unbeatable mastermind of the battlefield who can do no wrong is bad writing, especially since he won't get a personal story-line where he can show flaws like the heroes.

I think Rebels is doing a good job of Thrawn, as a extremely competent Imperial leader. He has flaws in his plans, like all Imperials, but tactically and strategically he is a master. He probed the Atalon cell all season, learning all he could of their tactics and personalities. He used their mole against them to pinpoint their location and control the information they received. He arrived with overwhelming force and a sound strategy. He won the battle. He didn't decisively end the rebellion, an absurd notion to begin with, but he saved the defender factory and forced the abandonment or destruction of much material.

Where his plan failed, where he failed, was entirely in his failure to grasp the political situation of his subordinates. Thrawn appears to be a loyalist. Everything he does is for Palpatine. Konstantine was not. He was a glory hound. Thrawn KNEW THIS, and failed to give Konstantine any opportunities for such. Konstantine should have been in control of the vanguard ISD, allowed the chance to destroy the Rebel capital ships that attempted to break the blockade. Instead he was intentionally and rudely kept in the rear, allowed no participation in the battle other than the initial escape attempt. Were Thrawn a good politician he would have given Konstantine a share of the credit. Instead he has constantly used him as bait and as a glorified scout. And in the end he gave him duties not befitting an Admiral and it cost him his complete victory. If you are going to keep a high ranking subordinate around in the Empire you need to work their personality into your plans, give them something to do, some glory to win, a chance for accolades.

shrug

Part of the problem is that fans have inflated Thrawns strategic and tactical abilities. Thrawn lost many times in the his book trilogy he was different from many villians in that fact he didn't murder his subordinates for either just failing or out living their usefulness. Many where basing Thrawn on over exaggerated memories from sequel books.

On 26/3/2017 at 11:08 AM, ceejlekabeejle said:

I think Hera is definitely the brilliant strategist: I'd like to see her become a general at some point, and maybe even turn up on the Armada board as a commander. They've set a precedent with Leia and Vader.

I think the point with this episode is that Thrawn came up against his ultimate weakness (at least within the TV show), which is the unpredictable. Throughout the forty minutes, Thrawn had total command of the situation, got a victory by the Empire's standards, and came within inches of crushing the Lothal rebels once and for all. He even continually tried to account for the Rebels' unorthodoxy; ordering the Interdictors stay to the rear, probing the Rebels' shields, testing their ground defences. What he could control, Thrawn dominated.

What robbed him of the total victory (which, in Thrawn's eyes, no doubt made his mission a failure), was what he couldn't control. It was the fact that he couldn't plan for the Bendu. Right at the point when he had the Rebel officers at gunpoint, his plan was undone by the arrival of the storm. Bendu was nothing other than an element of chaos, shown when his thunder struck down A-wings and AT-AT alike, but Thrawn's reliance on logic and order is one that cannot accomodate such chaos. I think that's why the Bendu was so important to this series, and why that final face to face between him and Thrawn was so powerful; if Bendu is the pure embodiment of the Force, then it is always that element that Thrawn cannot predict, cannot account for, and that costs him in despite of his superiority in every other regard.

TL;DR: If Thrawn had been playing chess, he'd have won hands down. But Thrawn's an Armada player, and in Armada the unpredictability of the dice can always undo the best conceived plans. The Bendu's the dice.

But Keenan rolled that dice.

Season 4 is bringing in X-wings...they gotta steal some x-wings and bring in Mon Cals.

I think the context we never got with Konstantine's command of an interdictor is that it was meant as a punishment and an insult by Thrawn. Konstantine wants all the glory so what do you do to aggravate that kindve man? Put him in a ship out of combat but just in sight of the battle so he can watch as someone else achieve glory.

7 hours ago, Forresto said:

I think the context we never got with Konstantine's command of an interdictor is that it was meant as a punishment and an insult by Thrawn. Konstantine wants all the glory so what do you do to aggravate that kindve man? Put him in a ship out of combat but just in sight of the battle so he can watch as someone else achieve glory.

Nah I totally got that it was a punishment for his failure with Iron squadron. Konstantine is typical of early Imperial admirals competent enough to do the job but really just glorified beuracrats looking for glory. Thrawn is the first true military leader we have seen in the show willing to risk troops and equipment but only for the overall mission objective not for personal gain and especially doesn't like to waste assets for no real gain.