3 minutes ago, Raging Celt said:

(There are some salty dogs here for sure. We all have our opinion and that's cool. You don't have to like the show. I won't defend it for you. That being said I hear lazy and bad writing being thrown around a lot. I defy you to write a coherent story over four years. Make it good. Work through established characters and timelines. Be mindful of the future plans and your impact across a multimedia global platform. Let's see what your Rebels looks like.)

You gunna pay me? Otherwise it's pointless challenge you just made. Cuz those people get paid to write, and have the education to do it and yet there are a ton of inconsistencies. Would it be so hard for Ezra and Sabine to grab a few thermal detonators and place them on the grav well instead of shooting it with pistols? Where is the logic? These type of things are my main gripe about the show.

Overall, the story arc is fine. Not amazing, but season 3 has been the best so far. Just because the demographic is aimed at a younger age does not mean the writing needs to be either. There have been plenty of movies and shows that aim for a young age, and yet still cater to an older audience because the producers know the parents will want to know what their kids are watching.

It's perfectly acceptable for people to want the show to be better.

13 minutes ago, Raging Celt said:

(There are some salty dogs here for sure. We all have our opinion and that's cool. You don't have to like the show. I won't defend it for you. That being said I hear lazy and bad writing being thrown around a lot. I defy you to write a coherent story over four years. Make it good. Work through established characters and timelines. Be mindful of the future plans and your impact across a multimedia global platform. Let's see what your Rebels looks like.)

Just to play devil's advocate... I imagine most of the people on here aren't professional writers.

Even if they were, I doubt they have been hired to be part of a writing team, vetted and hired by dozens of executives and producers, and gave years if not decades of experience throughout the industry.

Whether you like the writing or not, it's understandable that it should be held to a certain standard. This isn't a bunch of kids in a garage with a camcorder; this is one of the biggest entertainment empires on the planet with jaw dropping resources at their disposal.

5 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

Just to play devil's advocate... I imagine most of the people on here aren't professional writers.

Even if they were, I doubt they have been hired to be part of a writing team, vetted and hired by dozens of executives and producers, and gave years if not decades of experience throughout the industry.

Whether you like the writing or not, it's understandable that it should be held to a certain standard. This isn't a bunch of kids in a garage with a camcorder; this is one of the biggest entertainment empires on the planet with jaw dropping resources at their disposal.

Yes, they need to be held to a Certain Standard.

And they are.

It is the Standard of Disney, who are the owners of the Star Wars Franchise.

And its up to their standard.

All other standards - in the grand scheme of things - are irrelevant, no matter how personally invested we may be in them.

17 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Yes, they need to be held to a Certain Standard.

And they are.

It is the Standard of Disney, who are the owners of the Star Wars Franchise.

And its up to their standard.

All other standards - in the grand scheme of things - are irrelevant, no matter how personally invested we may be in them.

Doesn't mean Disney has very good standards. I remember watching the shows my sister watched and how freaking awful they were. Plus the horror stories of the actors and actresses after they get out of Disney's life draining embrace and the **** show that follows.

6 hours ago, Trizzo2 said:

I want to like the show, this is the problem The issue is the writers make it very difficult to do so. I don't go soft on a show because I like the lore.

1) I was not talking about value in terms of material. Of course they lost material value. But it doesn't have any emotional pay off. All these ships were hyperspaced in from essentially nowhere. They were not especially earned, they just appeared, strangely enough in time for a grand finale big battle! And now they are all gone. Well that was an interesting albeit pointless exercise. But hey cool explosions.

3) The plot armour is ridiculous. I don't think any examples need to be pointed out, surely not? This is a problem. There is no sense of threat to any of the characters. At every turn the writers undermine themselves. They wanted this to be a serious season. If you match this "new threat" with an increase to plot armour it isn't interesting viewing.

1) The arrival of Dodonna's fleet was significant because it marked the first gathering of multiple rebel elements for a combined combat mission. This gathering occurs after great preperation and under great risk, only to have Thrawn's fleet jump in and devestate the combined force. It's akin to being assigned a group for a really important business merger, having everyone show up to the first meeting, and suddenly one of the business-owners croaks, and another has their assets seized by the government. Their was a lot of buildup to the point of this gathering between the different cells through the season, and to have it just be utterly crushed was rather potent. Maybe watching through the whole season would have helped with this.

3. I totally understand here, the plot armor in this show is astronomical, but you should consider a couple things.

1. This is a Star Wars series, we very rarely lose protagonists in the Star Wars universe, and when we do it's a really big deal. Classic Heroes story structure here. (EPs 1, 4, 7 anyone?)

2. This is a Disney operation, on a Disney-owned channel. Disney likewise VERY rarely does away with protagonists (mentors and parents are death-marked, but main characters are nigh-invincible)

Combine the two of them and you basically have characters that are as destructible as a black hole, no known force can make them go away.

3.Watch Game of Thrones if you like the entire cast dying every other season.

Knowing this, it is still aggravating to me when turbolaser blasts that should obliterate a dozen meters of land strikes... and make a several centimeter puff, that rocks a nearby speederbike. Or when two amateur Jedi face off against Darth Vader and survive. Or anytime the Ghost is within firing range of an Imperial-Class Destroyer....This would be a really fun list to make after going through the entire show actually...But yeah, Plot armor.

I have started watching the show to see how the Ghost crew manages to make it out brushing sparks off the seat of their pants.

7 hours ago, ceejlekabeejle said:

Metaphor my friend.

I just thought that the guy needed some credit for that. After all this show goes around the rebel heroes and their missions, and 8/10 of this thread is about thrawn

35 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Doesn't mean Disney has very good standards. I remember watching the shows my sister watched and how freaking awful they were. Plus the horror stories of the actors and actresses after they get out of Disney's life draining embrace and the **** show that follows.

Irrelevant.

Those are the standards that must be adhered to.

But all in all, remember:

I am a Loud, but Ultimately Irrelevant Voice on the internet, telling you to remember that everyone here is loud, but Ultimately Irrelevant

59 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Yes, they need to be held to a Certain Standard.

And they are.

It is the Standard of Disney, who are the owners of the Star Wars Franchise.

And its up to their standard.

All other standards - in the grand scheme of things - are irrelevant, no matter how personally invested we may be in them.

If I was producing the show, this would be true. But since I'm critiquing the show then my personal standards are the only yardstick that matter in my comments.

If I say that I think some story element was weak, or that they took a wrong turn with the plot - then that's the discussion being had.

We aren't pitching a deal to Disney. We're kibitzing about a show we watch.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

You gunna pay me? Otherwise it's pointless challenge you just made.

You're serious, right? That's your response? Dude. As I see it if all you have are complaints then offer something better. Lucasfilm storygroup is tight knit and mindful of what they are doing. Sorry you can't see this. Instead of focusing on the entirety you want to knit pick. That's cool. I get it.

So I tell you what: I will pay you. I will expect a dynamic story that fulfills the demand of the saga, the community, the merchandisers, the shareholders, and the audience. I will pay handsomely. (And I am not kidding.) But here's the catch. If your story does not deliver them I will expect an immediate refund of all moneys spent. Challenge accepted?

It depends entirely on the why.

Of course - I see these things as Pointless.

Because, to me, it focuses on the Negative, and yet ultimately brings no change and no enlightenment to the thing in question.

I mean, I'll discuss rules all day, for example - but unless I'm talking with Michael Gernes himself, all of my rules discussions are framed around "this is what we have, how do we make the most of it." rather than "this is what I want to be changed" or "this is what was done WRONG" - because no amount of circle discussion is going to effect any change while the people involved in the making of the discussion piece have any input or receive any output.

I'm not saying its what is happening here, but all too often, when people are focusing on the negative and have their own little echo chamber - one of two things happens... Either you're disagreed with, and it turns into a shouting of "You're Wrong" "No, You're Wrong!"... Or it ends up sounding like pointless whining where all someone wants to do is denigrate something that is enjoyed by someone else, because "ITS WRONG".

In either case, all it does is feed in more and more negativity. And I guess... I'm tired of it.

I just prefer productive discussion. I've always advocated for it... Don't like something? Don't just whine about it, whine with a purpose - - collect your information and present it to the people who can make a difference.

Ultimately, if they don't listen or don't act, that's on them - but you've certainly done your bit.

Or, point out the mistakes you see being made - and use that as a lesson to improve your own awareness of story structure. Critiquing is a form of analysis; and analysis is a form of self-improvement.

I'm a writer. Every other storyteller (and the way they tell their stories) is a resource I can use to improve my own craft. Sharing points of view and hearing counter-arguments refines this even further.

I've learned from Star Wars that a victory without cost is a hollow one. I remember when Harrison Ford was arguing with Lucas that Solo should die in RotJ - so that the act of sacrifice would add pathos to the story and drive the development of Luke & Leia's characters. I think he was right.

And I think that, in Rebels, the passing of a character more significant than Sato would have made Thrawn seem more than just another obstacle our Heroes had to hop over.

These kinds of things are worth discussing - even if such discussion sounds like whining.

19 minutes ago, Raging Celt said:

You're serious, right? That's your response? Dude. As I see it if all you have are complaints then offer something better. Lucasfilm storygroup is tight knit and mindful of what they are doing. Sorry you can't see this. Instead of focusing on the entirety you want to knit pick. That's cool. I get it.

So I tell you what: I will pay you. I will expect a dynamic story that fulfills the demand of the saga, the community, the merchandisers, the shareholders, and the audience. I will pay handsomely. (And I am not kidding.) But here's the catch. If your story does not deliver them I will expect an immediate refund of all moneys spent. Challenge accepted?

Do you have a team selected? Will you also pay for my education so I know how to write screen play and animate cartoons? Are you willing to wait several years and still pay for wages and other expenses?

Get a grip. You're acting like someone can't have an opinion on a topic unless they are an expert on the topic. So go flash all your imaginary money around and tell everyone they can't do any better. I'm going to sit back and troll you because I find it amusing.

I don't need your respect or approval for me to be satisfied with myself.

45 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Do you have a team selected? Will you also pay for my education so I know how to write screen play and animate cartoons? Are you willing to wait several years and still pay for wages and other expenses?

Get a grip. You're acting like someone can't have an opinion on a topic unless they are an expert on the topic. So go flash all your imaginary money around and tell everyone they can't do any better. I'm going to sit back and troll you because I find it amusing.

I don't need your respect or approval for me to be satisfied with myself.

Wow. You showed me. Got me right good. Dintcha? You come eolling out with your belicose posts. You get challenged to produce THEN you come back with this ridiculous "pay for.my education" nonsense. Man, that is not how the real world works. You failed bruh. I challenged you and you can only squeak a lame "I don't need your respect" BS.

You can have all the opinions in the world. Go for it. Kinda funny that you have nothing to back it up with. Guess your opinion is as imaginary as my money.

You troll right away. I welcome it. You find it amusing? That's pathetic. What else could I possibly expect? All talk. Just like everyone else on the internet. No action. No redults. Just talk. Blather in yo. It's your world. And y'know? I'll even let you have the last word. I know you can't resist. (Bet your anxiously refreshing right nownto see if I will respond. ) I think you just become a wastebof time troll boy.

17 minutes ago, Raging Celt said:

Wow. You showed me. Got me right good. Dintcha? You come eolling out with your belicose posts. You get challenged to produce THEN you come back with this ridiculous "pay for.my education" nonsense. Man, that is not how the real world works. You failed bruh. I challenged you and you can only squeak a lame "I don't need your respect" BS.

You can have all the opinions in the world. Go for it. Kinda funny that you have nothing to back it up with. Guess your opinion is as imaginary as my money.

You troll right away. I welcome it. You find it amusing? That's pathetic. What else could I possibly expect? All talk. Just like everyone else on the internet. No action. No redults. Just talk. Blather in yo. It's your world. And y'know? I'll even let you have the last word. I know you can't resist. (Bet your anxiously refreshing right nownto see if I will respond. ) I think you just become a wastebof time troll boy.

You're right, I will have the last word. Let's go over your ridiculous claim and compare it to the real world shall we?

You are offering to pay me, or someone else, to create a Star Wars story with the following criteria:

1 hour ago, Raging Celt said:

I will expect a dynamic story that fulfills the demand of the saga, the community, the merchandisers, the shareholders, and the audience. I will pay handsomely. (And I am not kidding.) But here's the catch. If your story does not deliver them I will expect an immediate refund of all moneys spent. Challenge accepted?

So you want a great story that everyone loves and does not contain my many annoying inconsistencies. Well, The Clone Wars cartoons were pretty good, so unless you want to make a movie and give up hundreds of millions of dollars, let's use TCW for reference.

Lucas said the budget for each episode is about 1 million dollars. http://io9.gizmodo.com/5033398/george-lucas-spills-all-about-clone-wars-at-skywalker-ranch

And each season was 22 episodes. So that's about 22 million for just making the episodes. But you also need a studio so be sure to pick up the tab on that too.

Oh ****, almost forgot you need to get the the rights and approval from Disney for me to make this stellar show, and I can tell you that will be an uphill struggle for you. "Please mister mouse, let this guy I challenged on the interwebs make a cartoon for you. He has no clue wtf he is doing, but trust me, it will be good because we have a bet."

But this is the real world right? You're willing to invest tens of millions of dollars into someone who told you upfront they have no experience in writing or animation. What kind of business man are you? And what makes you think I would agree to your terms that I have to pay you back if you don't like it? This is the real world, where I get to make real world, logical decisions.

But if you're serious, you're **** right I'll take you up on the offer. You are taking all the risk after all. You're investing in me to produce something, and it's Star Wars themed at that! I would love to be able to write Star Wars stories and have it be hugely successful.

So do you have a position for me with Lucasfilm? Because that's the only way I could create Star Wars content for this challenge.

Or you just playing bruh? All talk no action?

4 hours ago, Democratus said:

I sir applaud you.

Please remember this is a conversation about the relationship between Disney cartoons and tiny plastic spaceships, and not turn this forum into a den of rage like the X-wing ones.

Just now, D503 said:

Please remember this is a conversation about the relationship between Disney cartoons and tiny plastic spaceships, and not turn this forum into a den of rage like the X-wing ones.

Fair enough. Thank you for the polite and professional reminder. It's always a little surprising when things get out of hand. And yeah I contributed. Shouldn't have but I did. Anyway. Back to the black. Let's push plastic, roll dice, and fly casual.

2 hours ago, D503 said:

Please remember this is a conversation about the relationship between Disney cartoons and tiny plastic spaceships, and not turn this forum into a den of rage like the X-wing ones.

100% this. I'm totally happy to discuss the finer points of a TV show, and even to disagree over them, but let's not get things out of perspective.

I think it's well worth reading the article that @shmitty posted earlier (quoted below), for an insight into the writers' process behind Rebels. It's a lengthy interview, but clearly works through a number of the questions around how to write the story, and why they very consciously made one decision over the other. Filoni's comments on Kallus, for instance, are very telling:

"It would be pretty sad that this guy that was a bad guy actually turning into perhaps a good guy… Why should he pay a price for that good thought? That didn’t seem like it would be communicating the right story point. You have to be careful now because a lot of people think in storytelling, “We’re going to do what’s not typical and we’re going to go against the grain!” But if the purpose of doing that is because we’ve never seen it before or to be sensational, why are you telling that story? What’s the benefit to killing him off? It would communicate the message that he tried to change and he died and nothing came of it."

What this shows me is that the writers did consider the possibility of killing of Kallus, but decided that would not be the right one for the show. Filoni questions the mindset of killing off characters for the sake of "originality", or perhaps "grit", and suggests that it would send the wrong message to the show's primary audience, which is children.

But the most important aspect of the interview overall for me is the attention and care that the show's writers and producers put into making their episodes. A lot of people question the Star Wars franchise's "standards", particularly since it was taken over by Disney, as if they don't try to produce quality, and only care about money spinning. I think this interview shows that that is simply not the case; these are people doing their best to bring us good stories, even if there is inevitably a financial side to that. You may not like the stories, you may not agree with the decisions they made, but let's at least assume they're making their decisions with the right intentions.

15 hours ago, shmitty said:

More info here: http://news.google.com/news/url?sr=1&ct2=us%2F1_0_s_0_1_a&sa=t&usg=AFQjCNGEd1pLLQtJP-XfwytRH5rPTkSuUQ&cid=52779437383709&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ign.com%2Farticles%2F2017%2F03%2F28%2Fstar-wars-rebels-dave-filoni-discusses-kallus-arc-mauls-fate-and-more-of-season-3s-big-storylines&ei=HI7aWMDPJNDEqQK5g6xo&sig2=FNh3a9ooUSBkvCixEPFG8g&rt=HOMEPAGE&vm=STANDARD&bvm=section&did=-8432046436605110843&sid=en_us-sfy&ssid=sfy&st=1&at=dt0&eid=%2Fm%2F0vpw97h&ise=true&insrc=1

7 hours ago, ceejlekabeejle said:

100% this. I'm totally happy to discuss the finer points of a TV show, and even to disagree over them, but let's not get things out of perspective.

I think it's well worth reading the article that @shmitty posted earlier (quoted below), for an insight into the writers' process behind Rebels. It's a lengthy interview, but clearly works through a number of the questions around how to write the story, and why they very consciously made one decision over the other. Filoni's comments on Kallus, for instance, are very telling:

"It would be pretty sad that this guy that was a bad guy actually turning into perhaps a good guy… Why should he pay a price for that good thought? That didn’t seem like it would be communicating the right story point. You have to be careful now because a lot of people think in storytelling, “We’re going to do what’s not typical and we’re going to go against the grain!” But if the purpose of doing that is because we’ve never seen it before or to be sensational, why are you telling that story? What’s the benefit to killing him off? It would communicate the message that he tried to change and he died and nothing came of it."

What this shows me is that the writers did consider the possibility of killing of Kallus, but decided that would not be the right one for the show. Filoni questions the mindset of killing off characters for the sake of "originality", or perhaps "grit", and suggests that it would send the wrong message to the show's primary audience, which is children.

But the most important aspect of the interview overall for me is the attention and care that the show's writers and producers put into making their episodes. A lot of people question the Star Wars franchise's "standards", particularly since it was taken over by Disney, as if they don't try to produce quality, and only care about money spinning. I think this interview shows that that is simply not the case; these are people doing their best to bring us good stories, even if there is inevitably a financial side to that. You may not like the stories, you may not agree with the decisions they made, but let's at least assume they're making their decisions with the right intentions.

Bingo. You nailed it. Perfectly.

I wanna see them jack some X-wings, a few Arc 170's show up...and a Venator in Imperial colors.

7 minutes ago, Gottmituns205 said:

...and a Venator in Imperial colors.

When my hobby supply business is producing paints, my first colours are going to be "Uninspired White" and "Boring Grey". Perfect for Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters.