Speed 5 for a missile boat? As far as I can remember they were rather sluggish, definitely couldn't outrun an X-Wing.

7 hours ago, Norell said:

Speed 5 for a missile boat? As far as I can remember they were rather sluggish, definitely couldn't outrun an X-Wing.

At normal speed, yes. But when using the SLAM module (or "turbo" as i called it), they were just as fast as defenders.

9 minutes ago, idiewell said:

At normal speed, yes. But when using the SLAM module (or "turbo" as i called it), they were just as fast as defenders.

Well, that's something different.

Why not make them, say, Speed 2... But give them the ability to Move Twice instead of Shooting. That way they can set up their Shots quickly...

Vader being an "Escort" bothered me. If anything he should give "escort" to all TIE squadrons in range 1 he should also be "Rogue"

4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Well, that's something different.

Why not make them, say, Speed 2... But give them the ability to Move Twice instead of Shooting. That way they can set up their Shots quickly...

11 hours ago, Norell said:

Speed 5 for a missile boat? As far as I can remember they were rather sluggish, definitely couldn't outrun an X-Wing.

6 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Well, that's something different.

Why not make them, say, Speed 2... But give them the ability to Move Twice instead of Shooting. That way they can set up their Shots quickly...

Works for me. thestag prefers speed 4, you suggested speed 2 so i'll split the difference and say speed 3. I like the move twice option. One minute they're miles away, the next they're in your face

Skipray blastboat speed 3 hull 7 rogue bomber heavy 2 blue as and 3 black anti ship 20 Pts

Elite squadron (name pending) speed 3 hull 7 rogue bomber 2 blue as and 3 black anti ship spend 2 crits to reduce target ship speed by 1 to minimum of 1 30 pts

9 hours ago, chr335 said:

Skipray blastboat speed 3 hull 7 rogue bomber heavy 2 blue as and 3 black anti ship 20 Pts

Elite squadron (name pending) speed 3 hull 7 rogue bomber 2 blue as and 3 black anti ship spend 2 crits to reduce target ship speed by 1 to minimum of 1 30 pts

At some point i expect to see the Skipray added to the Empire and the Auzituck added to the Rebellion.

On 3/26/2017 at 3:13 PM, thestag said:

According to some unsubstantiated data I've found , the MB cruises at 122 MGLT compared to the X-Wing at 100 MGLT. But it's still slower than a TIE Defender (155 MGLT), so I think speed 4 is the happy medium.

I tried to re-create the single laser by choosing the die with the fewest damage sides. The double represents getting that missile off at short range, which isn't impossible, but does take time and sometimes a bit of luck. I feel it's a perfect die for the MB single laser.

Missile Boat (second edition):
Speed 4
Hull 4
1 Red Anti-Squadron
2/2 Black/Blue Anti-Ship
Long Snipe 4 - (You can attach squadrons at distance 3 with an anti-squadron armament of 4 blue dice. This attack ignores the Counter keyword.)
SLAM - When activated by a [squadron] command or token, you may move twice instead of attacking.
Bomber
27 points

Unique: Mu Squadron - Any Missile Boat squadrons within distance 2 of you may reroll any dice while attacking a ship.
32 points

Soooooo it effectively has speed 8 if it wants, or can move at speed 4 and then attack at range 3, or medium with rhymer... Or attack twice with Jendon.

I don't see how this is balanced at all. It is impossible to alpha strike this squad. It has an effective range of 4+3, which is massive. The only over squad that can do that without buffs is Saber at 5+2. No ship can get close enough to attack it because it can deal a max of 6 damage, and average 3.5. You can fit 3 plus Mu and Rhymer. And with 1 BCC, your Boats get to reroll 3 bomber dice at medium range of your target.

I really hope this squad is a joke.

6 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

Soooooo it effectively has speed 8 if it wants, or can move at speed 4 and then attack at range 3, or medium with rhymer... Or attack twice with Jendon.

I don't see how this is balanced at all. It is impossible to alpha strike this squad. It has an effective range of 4+3, which is massive. The only over squad that can do that without buffs is Saber at 5+2. No ship can get close enough to attack it because it can deal a max of 6 damage, and average 3.5. You can fit 3 plus Mu and Rhymer. And with 1 BCC, your Boats get to reroll 3 bomber dice at medium range of your target.

I really hope this squad is a joke.

While you bring up valuable points, this is all just fun and speculation (something I rarely get into).

If you ever played the old TIE Fighter game, you would know how OP this ship was.

I tried to balance it by adding the Achilles heel of other squadrons. If you can lock down a MB, then it shouldn't be too hard to destroy it. However if you bring several MB's...

I'd love to get some constructive criticism on this like I did from @Norell , @idiewell and @Drasnighta Perhaps the cost still needs to go up on this guy. Or we can move on to designing more squadrons, like the R-41, T-Wing and Star Viper.

Speed 3
Hull 4
1 Red Anti-squadron
1 Blue, 1 Black Anti-ship
Snipe 4 (2 black 2 blue)
Bomber
20sum points

Mu Squad: While a friendly squadron with Bomber is attacking a ship at range 1 of you, it may reroll 1 die.
Double Brace
25 points

Slow the squad down and reduce the threat range. It can still get places and do things, but it's not crazy. Corrupter can boost it further, so there is an obvious synergy there. The Snipe value represents the potency of the armament it carries, yet can't bring use it while engaged. Bomber dice also represent the threat it had against ships and gives the Empire one of the best bomber-synergy squads in the game, to further live up to the hype.

Mu is a foil to Rhymer, much like Jendon is. You don't want to run both otherwise you risk splitting your squads, since Mu has to be at range 1 of the target.

The squad is very fragile. Once engaged, it's basically useless. Shara and Tycho can still work against it, and Intel is still the obvious counter to that.

20ish points seems suitable for because it has great anti-ship dice and Snipe 4. It looks like a good pair with the Defender, which I used as a reference.

Constructively - I do remember just how OP it was in TIE fighter.

Because of that, I think its "OP"-ness is perhaps the one single thing that should not be translated across to another platform. It was the single worst thing about it.

So thusly, I take it a different route:

Speed 3
Hull 5
Anti-Squad: 3 Red
Bombing: Blue Black
Bomber, SLAM

SLAM: "Instead of attacking, you may move distance 1, even while engaged."

18 Points.

Its primary armament now reflects the primary armament of the Z-95. Concussion Missiles. Which do a ton of damage, IF they hit - and it lacks the maneuverability to capitalise on its maneuver tactics (which, to me, is the Swarm Granting of the Z-95).

It still has (for squadrons) "Heavy Duty" Bombing firepower.

Its also costed that the Firespray is a multirole Rogue alternative, rather than replacing it entirely. It also almost equals two TIE bombers straight up (and does in cost), and honestly, its dice are far more swingy than those. It is more expensive than the H6 to reflect its greater speed of advancement - which allows it to keep up with TIE Bombers, just not fire at the same time, even though its hull is reduced. Its Anti-Squadron Shots are also wildly swingy, with no fixing. It also has a breakaway function similar to Phantoms, but its not needing to Survive until the Squad phase to do it.

I'd consider its unique Squadron to upgrade to Black/Black Bomber, add Grit, and call it 20 points.

I sincerely hope people look at that and their thoughts are more along the likes of "Eh, I'll give it a go." Rather than "ITS TOO EPIC NOT TO TAKE."

This way, we're also creating a new Keyword, rather than modifying a current Keyword... (Counters + Snipes are Blue dice. Because its part of their rule. Otherwise what you're doing isn't Snipe or Counter, if its using a different die colour - it needs a new explanation, and if you're going to use a new explanation, you might as well have a new Keyword at the same time, too).

I wouldn't mind a squad that while attacking a ship could resolve a friendly ship's blue crit effect... Say that ship has to be distance 3 of the squad or something like that... Some way of boosting ion crit effects would be entertaining...squads seem like a decent vector

4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Constructively - I do remember just how OP it was in TIE fighter.

Because of that, I think its "OP"-ness is perhaps the one single thing that should not be translated across to another platform. It was the single worst thing about it.

So thusly, I take it a different route:

Speed 3
Hull 5
Anti-Squad: 3 Red
Bombing: Blue Black
Bomber, SLAM

SLAM: "Instead of attacking, you may move distance 1, even while engaged."

18 Points.

Its primary armament now reflects the primary armament of the Z-95. Concussion Missiles. Which do a ton of damage, IF they hit - and it lacks the maneuverability to capitalise on its maneuver tactics (which, to me, is the Swarm Granting of the Z-95).

It still has (for squadrons) "Heavy Duty" Bombing firepower.

Its also costed that the Firespray is a multirole Rogue alternative, rather than replacing it entirely. It also almost equals two TIE bombers straight up (and does in cost), and honestly, its dice are far more swingy than those. It is more expensive than the H6 to reflect its greater speed of advancement - which allows it to keep up with TIE Bombers, just not fire at the same time, even though its hull is reduced. Its Anti-Squadron Shots are also wildly swingy, with no fixing. It also has a breakaway function similar to Phantoms, but its not needing to Survive until the Squad phase to do it.

I'd consider its unique Squadron to upgrade to Black/Black Bomber, add Grit, and call it 20 points.

I sincerely hope people look at that and their thoughts are more along the likes of "Eh, I'll give it a go." Rather than "ITS TOO EPIC NOT TO TAKE."

This way, we're also creating a new Keyword, rather than modifying a current Keyword... (Counters + Snipes are Blue dice. Because its part of their rule. Otherwise what you're doing isn't Snipe or Counter, if its using a different die colour - it needs a new explanation, and if you're going to use a new explanation, you might as well have a new Keyword at the same time, too).

I'm probably underestimating SLAM, but I would estimate that ship is overcosted a fair bit. Judging by the playtests for the old ARC-170, which had generally similar stats, I would put it around 16, maybe 15, maybe 17. I'd have to try it. Triple red with no swarm is incredibly swingy.

You're completely correct - and its deliberate.

I based it on 16, and then added a 2 point "Custom Job" tax.

A higher price tag on a missile boat is a good thing, IMHO. These fighters were super-rare, so you should pay more for them. I do NOT want to see the other side able to field tons of these.

The blastboat was much less of a threat ibX-Wing Alliance. It had decent speed and rather strong shields but nowhere near how strong it was in TIE Fighter. An X-Wing could outrun it and once it get behind the blastboat was dead.

Preybird speed 3, hull 5, 3 blue as, 1 red anti ship bomber and escort. 12 pts

14 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

This way, we're also creating a new Keyword, rather than modifying a current Keyword... (Counters + Snipes are Blue dice. Because its part of their rule. Otherwise what you're doing isn't Snipe or Counter, if its using a different die colour - it needs a new explanation, and if you're going to use a new explanation, you might as well have a new Keyword at the same time, too).

Show me where Snipe is listed for exclusively using blue dice for the attacks. Otherwise, it's quite easy to simply write in 2 black 2 blue because it has the color of dice listed on the card. No need to explain anything. And you can even do it for Counter, despite the RRG saying it's blue dice. Is there really an explanation needed for "Snipe 4 (You can attack squadrons at distance 2 with an anti-squadron armament of 2 blue dice and 2 black dice. This attack ignores the Counter keyword.)"

56 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Show me where Snipe is listed for exclusively using blue dice for the attacks. Otherwise, it's quite easy to simply write in 2 black 2 blue because it has the color of dice listed on the card. No need to explain anything. And you can even do it for Counter, despite the RRG saying it's blue dice. Is there really an explanation needed for "Snipe 4 (You can attack squadrons at distance 2 with an anti-squadron armament of 2 blue dice and 2 black dice. This attack ignores the Counter keyword.)"

Easily:

On every single instance of Snipe Thusfar "Blue Dice" is part of the Keyword Explanation.

Same as Counter.

Because there is a Numerical Value There.

If they Keyword was just "Snipe" and then you had to read the explanation to see how many Dice - THEN I'd be more inclined to that Point.

But there is a single Numerical Value attached. 4. Now you do not need to read the explanation if you need a Refresher. Because Snipe/Counter is Blue Dice, and The Numerical Value attached to the Rule states how many......

What you see as meaningless explanation, I see as rules precedence. I mean, why not suddenly have Bomber allow you to resolve Accuracy Results....

Or Grit to allow you to ignore Engagement by 3 Squadrons.

It wouldn't exactly be Grit now, would it. It'd be, like Super Grit. .. Ultra Grit ... Mega Grit ...

You can technically do it - "Write it in" as such. But it flies in the face of all rules as written and, essentially, is not the rule in question at that point.

Maybe... True Grit

K wing speed 2, hull 6 or 7, 4 blue as, 3 black anti ship. Bomber slam (after completing a move can move again but can not attack this activation) 25 pts

Intel (or Grit) equipped squadron w/Bomber with a single die anti ship and maybe 2-3 anti squad die, not all blue. Maybe the hull of an X or Y wing. Something that needs to be dealt with by multiple squads, but isn't the worlds biggest threat. Think HWK on roids without counter. Maybe in that 20pt range.