Think a little outside the box. Last night I played against two Punishers and Pure Sabac. The Punishers were loaded with prox mines, seismic torpedoes, homing missiles and sensor jammer. The seismic torpedoes are under appreciated especially vs unshielded ships. They also had LRS. Just for that extra bit of annoyance. I was running Fenn, Cobra and Kavil and made the mistake of fighting in the rocks where the seismics and prox mines were used to good effect.

My op won on points and time but it was one heck of a game! Can't wait for a rematch.

1 hour ago, costi said:

I keep saying that the broken combo of pre-timing deadeye-R4 Agromech-Torpedo/missile should have been a build for the punisher. But since FFG decides that bombers should not have EPTs (with exception of TIE Bombers) there is no build for the TIE Punisher.

Sure U-boats were broken and the PWT was the icing on top of that mess. But if punishers could have pulled off the same combo and they don't have a PWT would the forum have been up in arms over that?

Maybe if they made a system card that works like the dead-eye focus-to-target lock combs but only for <torpedo> and <missile> weapons. That way Corran can't abuse it.

2 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

I keep saying that the broken combo of pre-timing deadeye-R4 Agromech-Torpedo/missile should have been a build for the punisher. But since FFG decides that bombers should not have EPTs (with exception of TIE Bombers) there is no build for the TIE Punisher.

Sure U-boats were broken and the PWT was the icing on top of that mess. But if punishers could have pulled off the same combo and they don't have a PWT would the forum have been up in arms over that?

Maybe if they made a system card that works like the dead-eye focus-to-target lock combs but only for <torpedo> and <missile> weapons. That way Corran can't abuse it.

Punishers and Ks don't have space for EPTs with their upgrade bar. This is actually an advantage the H-6 has, it doesn't have quite as many slots in exchange for having room free on the card for EPTs because it has a title to add a couple slots. And it can't equip non-unique Scum Astros with it's title.

So TIE/ITs and K-Wings would require a title or something to give them EPT slots.

9 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Punishers and Ks don't have space for EPTs with their upgrade bar. This is actually an advantage the H-6 has, it doesn't have quite as many slots in exchange for having room free on the card for EPTs because it has a title to add a couple slots. And it can't equip non-unique Scum Astros with it's title.

So TIE/ITs and K-Wings would require a title or something to give them EPT slots.

tell me something I don't know. TIE Punishers are overcrowded with upgrade slots that does them no good. Apparently FFG doesn't know if something is bad, more of it won't make it any better. The only decent upgrade slot is the <system> slot but even then that is not enough to make any of the baggage it comes with any good. Where as the K-wing has a <turret> and a <crew> upgrade slot, both are exceptionally great slots in the meta.

They need to make a <system> slot that acts like the dead-eye-R4 agro mech but restrict it to <torpedo> and <missile> secondary weapons.

The current premier TIE Bomber is, without a doubt, Deathfire. He is consistently MVP in my games and is a key piece of my current competitive squadron. Load him up like this and watch him do his thing.

EPT instead of double missiles would have been fine to me. Double torps has uses due to Extra Muns (which came with the punisher so clearly it was designed with it), and while now that would mean no Unguided Missiles....i'll take an EPT over that any day.

System punisher-specific (or highly restricted like Marinealver suggested) would be another good idea. The thing has 2 bomb slots, and as someone who loves bombs i really want it to focus on that. Especially since bombs and sensors is about all it has over the Bomber (which makes 0 sense....).

Punisher-only system that lets it drop ANY bomb after performing a maneuver using the 1fwd, 1banks, 2fwd, or 2bank templates. Yes that means it will snag itself with maneuver bombs but "Your hp is a resource, use it" comes to mind. I dont use Genius because he wastes a slot for that potential use, if it was slapped on to something else i was already bringing i'd probably do it quite a bit.

Well, retroactively, Double Missile has kind of become an imperial thing. I don't know if they were quite so future-looking as to know that Rockets would be a thing, but definitely it seems like a slight theme with the Bomber to Punisher and then Aggressor becomes a way to capitalize on it. If/when Gunboat becomes a thing, it would almost assuredly have 2 Missile Slots as well. And there is a system which is not restricted or unique and interacts with Bombs which will appear in the H-6 pack. That can only affect a single Havoc and the Punisher, unless I'm mistaken (Yeah yeah, Ghosts, U-Wings or B/E2s with Sabine - no way Mine[field] Map[per] is worth it for 1 bomb).

At times I feel like FFG can't decide if they like Deadeye or not - and it really seems to be avoiding a lot of multi ordnance ships (IE, Rebel Ys almost assuredly do not have EPTs normally to prevent Deadeye, no EPT on Ks and Punishers for Deadeye, removing deadeye from large ships to hurt Triple-U) but then they also still realize it's a boon, so the buff to the Bomber gives generics with an EPT slot, and the H-6 will pack an EPT.

Bang on cue?

On 3/24/2017 at 5:31 PM, Stay On The Leader said:

Bang on cue?

I actually by chance happened to fly an extremely similar squad the other day, the only difference is I ran death rain rather than redline, with the express purpose to fly duchess for the first time and prove that Deathrain was good to my skeptic brother. Luckily I trounced the opponents list with it not because of squad building as much as duchess staying out of arc and Deathrain playing catch with cluster mines, it turns out that Deathrain (In a similar build to my original post at the beginning of this thread) is a absolutely fantastic counter to Quickdraw as bombs are thrown out the front, the punisher barrel rolls, the bombs detonate and since no one else has moved she probably only has a range 3 shot on the defender or no shot at all since the punisher is out of arc. If you hit 2 cluster mine tokens on base, That is a solid way to knock out 2-3 shields at once and ensuring she won't get more than one free shot that game.

On 24/03/2017 at 6:34 PM, ObiWonka said:

Punishers with the dummy missiles and Lightweight Frame will be (almost)

3/2/6/3

starting at 25 points. That seems worth trying, at least!

Or just take a scurrg at 1pt less, for 3(real)/1/5/5, a dial that is going to knock the snot out of the punisher's (T-roll) and much better upgrades. Those two new upgrades will do wonders for bombers as jousters, but they don't even touch the punisher's level of stink. It still honks.

On 24/03/2017 at 9:31 PM, Stay On The Leader said:

Bang on cue?

Dazzle Camo! I love it!

Redline with FCS, EM, Clusters, Plasmas, and GC for 38 points is a good, reliable ordnance launcher that doesn't require any outside synergy to get it done.

With Redline, FCS, clusters and the new timing chart:

Aquire a TL, put 2 TL tokens on the defender.

Fire cluster missiles, spending 1 TL

Roll red Dice, you may spend the 2nd TL to reroll dice.

Roll second set of dice, if you spent the 2nd TL these have no mods, otherwise, spend the 2nd unspent TL.

Reaquire 2 TLs

Y/N?

5 minutes ago, Goseki1 said:

With Redline, FCS, clusters and the new timing chart:

Aquire a TL, put 2 TL tokens on the defender.

Fire cluster missiles, spending 1 TL

Roll red Dice, you may spend the 2nd TL to reroll dice.

Roll second set of dice, if you spent the 2nd TL these have no mods, otherwise, spend the 2nd unspent TL.

Reaquire 2 TLs

Y/N?

Correct. (spending the TL on the second attack is optional to mod dice, which I assume you know but your writing isn't 100% clear)

Basically the problem with Punishers is that they're too expensive for their stat line. That doesn't change by loading them out a bunch.

A lean generic Punisher with Lightweight Frame and Unguided Rockets sounds like it might well be a capable generic jouster, especially if you bring something along to feed it focus tokens when it has to K Turn, but that doesn't do anything for either of the named pilots.

I really want Deathrain and Redline to be good but they won't be until they become WAY better value for points.

On 27/03/2017 at 11:13 PM, banjobenito said:

Dazzle Camo! I love it!

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/painting-guide-dazzle-camoflage.htm l

Now with a guide on how to do it!

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/painting-guide-dazzle-camoflage.htm l

Now with a guide on how to do it!

I really like your dazzle scheme for small ships! I may have to copy it some time.

I've been gearing up to do battleship dazzle on some more of my large ships. I already did a Lambda, my next target is my Deci, though i might practice on my second Jump beforehand. Just got an airbrush, but haven't got round to breaking it out yet.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Correct. (spending the TL on the second attack is optional to mod dice, which I assume you know but your writing isn't 100% clear)

Basically the problem with Punishers is that they're too expensive for their stat line. That doesn't change by loading them out a bunch.

A lean generic Punisher with Lightweight Frame and Unguided Rockets sounds like it might well be a capable generic jouster, especially if you bring something along to feed it focus tokens when it has to K Turn, but that doesn't do anything for either of the named pilots.

I really want Deathrain and Redline to be good but they won't be until they become WAY better value for points.

Sorry yes, I meant to add "if needed" in brackets RE: spending the 2nd lock.

If you give the punisher a 2nd focus token and fanatical devotion it has a decent shot at doing 2 unblockable damage as well with clusters which is kind of nice. Expensive, but nice!

Eh, I'm really not sold on FD.

IME all it does is mean that they cancel a different result instead (often a crit), unless they would have evaded everything.

On 3/24/2017 at 3:27 PM, AngryAlbatross said:

Oh how wonderful Redline was before the FAQ where fire control system was nerfed.

I used to love shooting Cluster Missles with full target locks on both attacks, then dropping a bomb on the fly by as I K-Turned and shot a plasma torp!

Its still possible but just not as powerful

Ignorance on my part, apologies. How did it effect him?

It meant FCS only triggered after both shots of the Cluster Missile instead of in between, so he couldn't get rerolls on both shots any more.

Thanks....well that sounded sweet. Dang.

I mean, it was, but it didn't make him viable competitively. He's still vastly overpriced even with it.

35 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Eh, I'm really not sold on FD.

IME all it does is mean that they cancel a different result instead (often a crit), unless they would have evaded everything.

Agreed when shooting low agility ships, but against aces it can be pretty powerful.

True. I've not really come across aces in my testing of it TBF.