Punisher is bad, no doubt. However, a few of these builds have been absolutely terrifying and have really gotten the job done.

Deathrain: Enhanced scopes, cluster mines(x2 if you want but 1 is fine), Flechette Torpedoes, and Extra munitions, Long range scanners or Twin ion engine mk 2 are also optional.

This little bomber caused havoc in many a game, passing around stress and littering the field with bombs. His ability to bomb out the front and move first in addition to boost makes him a great blocker and guarantees hits with bombs on many ships. VCX or falcon, "Here, catch!" take 6 unavoidable attack die of damage, which usually works out to 2 hits and a critical before attacking. Flechettes can be really good when another ship (Lambda or Phantom) has sensor jammers on it. Very good control ship.e

Redline: Cluster missiles, Your choice of (Concussion missiles, Proton Torpedoes, or Plasma Torpedoes), Extra munitions, Fire Control Systems, Long Range Scanners, and ion bomb(optional)

Redline hits like a truck. Using ion bombs keeps other ships off of him if he is being tailed, with clusters and a range 2-3 4 die attack he has all ranges covered and his double target lock often keeps you from the general problem of long range scanners of lacking a TL on the second round of combat. I have watched X7's go down to this build multiple times. Unfortunately, keeping him alive can be problematic, so make sure you fly him with a defensiveness that allows for safer shots that your enemy won't want to trade with.

Try the new and upcoming rockets! They could do great things for the punisher.

I saw someone playing a good punisher build the other day:

I've had success with Deathrain, Advanced Sensors, Extra Munitions, Conner Nets, Proton bombs, and TIE Mk II engines. It's expensive, but at the time I had it paired with Fel and Omega Leader. The local meta at the time didn't know much about bombs and focused on the aces allowing Deathrain to usually get all four bombs off and greatly swing the games in my favor.

The main problem is Deathfire is just better.

"Deathfire" (17)
Extra Munitions (2)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 25

"Deathrain" (26)
Enhanced Scopes (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 35

You're paying 10pts to drop bombs with the front guides.

6 minutes ago, wurms said:

You're paying 10pts to drop bombs with the front guides.

And +3PS and Boost and 3 Shields.

9 minutes ago, wurms said:

The main problem is Deathfire is just better.

"Deathfire" (17)
Extra Munitions (2)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 25

"Deathrain" (26)
Enhanced Scopes (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 35

You're paying 10pts to drop bombs with the front guides.

So generally, death rain gets guaranteed drops with the front guides and moving first, which allows him to position himself and his bombs better as result, whereas death fire lacks the option for a second bomb slot or enhanced scopes. I understand deathfire has a low base ps, but it removes some of his potential as a blocker and allows others to block him.

Best Punisher build IMHO:

Step 1: Grab cards from set, toss model and pilot cards in trash.

Step 2: Buy K-Wings and play with them instead.

If you want to play thematic, effective bombers, play Rebels.

What about light-weight frame? Any better than MK II engine?

6 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

And +3PS and Boost and 3 Shields.

+3PS but you paid a point for 0PS. Boost isn't an improvement because if deathrain boosts, he can't drop mines, it cant arc dodge cause he is PS0, where as Deathfire gets a barrel roll and can drop mines. Not only that, he can drop mines on revealing of dial just like a bomb. And Deathrain has 3 shields but with 1 agility.

So really, it's 10pts for front guides, as their other abilities kind of counter the other. B-roll then bomb, or bomb then b-roll, etc.

1 minute ago, rafcpl6868 said:

So generally, death rain gets guaranteed drops with the front guides and moving first, which allows him to position himself and his bombs better as result, whereas death fire lacks the option for a second bomb slot or enhanced scopes. I understand deathfire has a low base ps, but it removes some of his potential as a blocker and allows others to block him.

Obviously there are differences between the two ships. I have flown both, and both survive about the same amount of time on the board. Deathfire with his barrel roll and bomb drop is really nasty, just like a front guide drop.

The 10pts you pay for the slight difference "if" scenarios is not worth it. 10pts! That is two homing missiles. Omega Leader instead of Dark Curse - that is 10pts well spent. Deathrain instead of Deathfire? Uh, no.

I love Deathrain, he was my favorite ship when I first started playing this game, but he is way too expensive for any serious list. Play him, have fun, but realize you are at a disadvantage every time he is on the table.

5 minutes ago, balindamood said:

What about light-weight frame? Any better than MK II engine?

Absolutely, I tend not to use it on punishers though since I often fly the punisher with some ties and a striker and I only have one copy of Light Weight Frame.

6 minutes ago, wurms said:

+3PS but you paid a point for 0PS. Boost isn't an improvement because if deathrain boosts, he can't drop mines, it cant arc dodge cause he is PS0, where as Deathfire gets a barrel roll and can drop mines. Not only that, he can drop mines on revealing of dial just like a bomb. And Deathrain has 3 shields but with 1 agility.

So, I've found the boost is much better than barrel roll when he is done with his munitions to get those range one shots. Lets not forget how important effective blocking and shooting first is in this game so his ps 6 and moving first is good for a tanky ship that gets in there and unloads. He doesn't need to necessarily live, he just needs to do 35 points of damage which he almost always does, getting bombs on slippery aces and dumping onto large ships which death fire simply has a harder time of accurately placing the bombs. I like death fire a lot with prox mines as they are easier to hit with without death rains ability. Both are really solid and Ive run both, but I'd give a slight edge to deathrain for his more surgical strikes.

You can really do some fun stuff with 3 TiePunishers. =). I brought Proton Bombs and Conner Nets. It was really bad vs high health lists though like Miranda 2TLT-Y Z. But it was really fun. And it needed more forward dice, which the punisher got from unguided rockets.

It was a lot stronger list than one would expect

I think unguided rockets may bring some TIE punishers back into competitive play.

2 minutes ago, rafcpl6868 said:

but I'd give a slight edge to deathrain for his more surgical strikes.

But a 10 point edge? That is my point. 10pts goes a LONG way.

Deathrain 35pt build:

Omega Specialist (25)
Crack Shot (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Sensor Cluster (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Omega Specialist (25)
Crack Shot (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Sensor Cluster (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

"Deathrain" (26)
Enhanced Scopes (1)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Extra Munitions (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 99

--------------------------------------

Deathfire 25pt build:

"Quickdraw" (29)
Expertise (4)
Fire-Control System (2)
Sensor Cluster (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

"Backdraft" (27)
Outmaneuver (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Sensor Cluster (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

"Deathfire" (17)
Extra Munitions (2)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

1 minute ago, wurms said:

But a 10 point edge? That is my point. 10pts goes a LONG way.

I'd say so personally, but that is where opinion comes into play and we cant make any headway.

48 minutes ago, wurms said:

+3PS but you paid a point for 0PS. Boost isn't an improvement because if deathrain boosts, he can't drop mines, it cant arc dodge cause he is PS0, where as Deathfire gets a barrel roll and can drop mines. Not only that, he can drop mines on revealing of dial just like a bomb. And Deathrain has 3 shields but with 1 agility.

You still shoot at +3PS.
No one said anything about arc-dodging, but you can block with Boost at PS0.
1 Agility sucks, but 3 Shields in exchange I believe actually does give him a slight edge in durability (given the same number/nature of incoming attacks).

Anyway, my point wasn't that you're wrong about it not being 10 points worth of improvement, only that you're not just paying for "dropping bombs out the front".

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

And +3PS and Boost and 3 Shields.

-1agi so theyre technically about the same durability. 9hp behind 1agi with no shenanigans to beef that agi out melts quickly, especially on a platform that cant fly widely to dodge initial jousting firing arcs. Yes it has access to jammers, but thats countered by a focus and is expensive on an already overpriced frame.

I think the punisher will resurface a bit when the new missiles come out. I dont normally proxy but i think im going to give it a shot.

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

I think the punisher will resurface a bit when the new missiles come out.

Punishers with the dummy missiles and Lightweight Frame will be (almost)

3/2/6/3

starting at 25 points. That seems worth trying, at least!

2 hours ago, rafcpl6868 said:

Punisher is bad, no doubt. However, a few of these builds have been absolutely terrifying and have really gotten the job done.

Deathrain: Enhanced scopes, cluster mines(x2 if you want but 1 is fine), Flechette Torpedoes, and Extra munitions, Long range scanners or Twin ion engine mk 2 are also optional.

This little bomber caused havoc in many a game, passing around stress and littering the field with bombs. His ability to bomb out the front and move first in addition to boost makes him a great blocker and guarantees hits with bombs on many ships. VCX or falcon, "Here, catch!" take 6 unavoidable attack die of damage, which usually works out to 2 hits and a critical before attacking. Flechettes can be really good when another ship (Lambda or Phantom) has sensor jammers on it. Very good control ship.e

Redline: Cluster missiles, Your choice of (Concussion missiles, Proton Torpedoes, or Plasma Torpedoes), Extra munitions, Fire Control Systems, Long Range Scanners, and ion bomb(optional)

Redline hits like a truck. Using ion bombs keeps other ships off of him if he is being tailed, with clusters and a range 2-3 4 die attack he has all ranges covered and his double target lock often keeps you from the general problem of long range scanners of lacking a TL on the second round of combat. I have watched X7's go down to this build multiple times. Unfortunately, keeping him alive can be problematic, so make sure you fly him with a defensiveness that allows for safer shots that your enemy won't want to trade with.

Clusters don't cause critical hits.

3 minutes ago, costi said:

Clusters don't cause critical hits.

FAQ: yes they do.

Just now, Vineheart01 said:

FAQ: yes they do.

They cause 1 damage on a crit symbol, not critical damage (no faceup cards).

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

FAQ: yes they do.

No they don't. They cause damage on a [crit] result.

Misunderstood, nvm

Oh how wonderful Redline was before the FAQ where fire control system was nerfed.

I used to love shooting Cluster Missles with full target locks on both attacks, then dropping a bomb on the fly by as I K-Turned and shot a plasma torp!

Its still possible but just not as powerful