3 hours ago, boomaster said:

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but why is it the Imperial Players get sooooo hurt whenever something ruins their fun?

Rebels have gone up and down and down and up since wave 1 and while people are generally miffed every now and then, there's no real moaning. No I know you're not moaning and I'm not going to go round and round with a guy like you on the forum because frankly I have paint to watch dry. But given that there was no palp in the last 3 system open top 8's and given that he's now over costed and no one's going to play him anymore..... what's your beef?

Tried a double Deci list yet? Or Rac with Kylo pushing crits through and wiping out high shield ships easily (fairly easily), tried Defenders? Or how about a Bomber list?

The OP seems upset that he brought a £60 expansion for 1 card.... Since that 1 card wasn't THE dogs danglies for the Imps in the past 2 years..... why would you spend £60 on 1 card. Me I buy the waves because I want STUFF... not cards.

Um, I don't think we are reading the same threads. Some of the biggest complaints are "the t-65 is useless" or "my B-wings aren't good enough anymore". Trust me. Complaining is no where near a Imperial only thing.

3 hours ago, boomaster said:

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but why is it the Imperial Players get sooooo hurt whenever something ruins their fun?

Rebels have gone up and down and down and up since wave 1 and while people are generally miffed every now and then, there's no real moaning. No I know you're not moaning and I'm not going to go round and round with a guy like you on the forum because frankly I have paint to watch dry. But given that there was no palp in the last 3 system open top 8's and given that he's now over costed and no one's going to play him anymore..... what's your beef?

Tried a double Deci list yet? Or Rac with Kylo pushing crits through and wiping out high shield ships easily (fairly easily), tried Defenders? Or how about a Bomber list?

The OP seems upset that he brought a £60 expansion for 1 card.... Since that 1 card wasn't THE dogs danglies for the Imps in the past 2 years..... why would you spend £60 on 1 card. Me I buy the waves because I want STUFF... not cards.

When triple jumps were the thing every rebel player was pissy. Double Deci? Because upgrades be damned. Kylo is our only real shine as of right now and it is no where near as powerful as Biggs was in the past.

I think it's fascinating that people identify so strongly with one of the factions. Personally I like all and I play all.

That also means that complaints about a T-65 fix are not rebel-colored, but instead based on my love for the ship itself - and that's faction independent.

I never understood why people stick to a certain faction (unless it's because of money, of course). All factions can give you almost all kinds of lists.

16 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think it's fascinating that people identify so strongly with one of the factions. Personally I like all and I play all.

That also means that complaints about a T-65 fix are not rebel-colored, but instead based on my love for the ship itself - and that's faction independent.

I never understood why people stick to a certain faction (unless it's because of money, of course). All factions can give you almost all kinds of lists.

Yes and no. While most archetypes are represented by all factions, some are better at it than others. Rebels are currently the ruling monarch of bombs, for example. Most of the people I know that identify as Imperial player do so because they prefer the Ace archetype, which Imps usually do the best. There is just enough difference between the factions that it makes sense that different personality types and variety of preferences lead to seeing a single faction as theirs. I personally also use all three, but tend to use Rebel and Scum more then Empire.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think it's fascinating that people identify so strongly with one of the factions. Personally I like all and I play all.

That also means that complaints about a T-65 fix are not rebel-colored, but instead based on my love for the ship itself - and that's faction independent.

I never understood why people stick to a certain faction (unless it's because of money, of course). All factions can give you almost all kinds of lists.

Maybe it's a question of $$$ as well? Playing 3 factions means buying 3 factions.

I'd love to see Imperials get squadron or wing titles for the old stuff...

Fighters, Interceptors, Advanced, Bombers...

Some ideas:

181st title can be given to any of the above and helps with removing enemy green tokens when attacking you

61st title strips green tokens from your target when you're attacking

Avenger Wing: easier to hit large ships or does more damage

Devastator Wing: bonuses for squadron composition

Chimaera Wing: bonuses when being shot at outside the primary arc

2 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

I'd love to see Imperials get squadron or wing titles for the old stuff...

Fighters, Interceptors, Advanced, Bombers...

Some ideas:

181st title can be given to any of the above and helps with removing enemy green tokens when attacking you

61st title strips green tokens from your target when you're attacking

Avenger Wing: easier to hit large ships or does more damage

Devastator Wing: bonuses for squadron composition

Chimaera Wing: bonuses when being shot at outside the primary arc

The idea of Squadron bonuses is something I hope will be applied to everyone. Could help all the struggling ships out and give new ways to play for ships doing alright.

20 hours ago, Johen Dood said:

STOP THE PRESSES GUYS! CLOSE THE THREAD! This guy had an 8 player tourney at his FLGS that that statistically proves that palp didn't get nerfed, because his opponent only wasted one use of Palps ability! Forget the Open results for Naboo, Tattooine, and Hoth, and the hundreds of players who participated, 3 Imps made top 4 in the Shitberg finals! Imps must be fine!

I for one am relieved.

Take your sarcasm and smart arsery elsewhere mate. I was providing an example. I never claimed it was definitive evidence.

My point still stands. Palp is not nerfed. You just now need to actually think about how you might use him. He's less of a crutch and more of a strategic asset.

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think it's fascinating that people identify so strongly with one of the factions. Personally I like all and I play all.

That also means that complaints about a T-65 fix are not rebel-colored, but instead based on my love for the ship itself - and that's faction independent.

I never understood why people stick to a certain faction (unless it's because of money, of course). All factions can give you almost all kinds of lists.

I play all 3 factions, I own all ships in multiples and i actually have played most tournaments as Empire. I am a huge fan of Imperial Ace builds, and my favorite pilot is actually Soontir Fel. I just adore flying the baron.

BUT on this forum i always felt compelled to defend Rebels and Scum. For a simple reason. The Empire only faction is so overly loud. And often overly wrong.

On the very rare occasions where they are not the number 1 faction:

- the sky is immediately falling

- everything Rebels ever had needs to be nerfed asap, from TLT to Regen to Sabine to Biggs.

- FFG is so unjust, they immediately need to give them more cheese with their whine...

And when they are the top faction (or one of them)

- everything is fine but could be better.

- everything Rebels ever had needs to be nerfed asap, from TLT to Regen to Sabine to Biggs.

- they are still whining, albeit on a higher level...

This very thread is a prime example. Rebels won 2 of 3 big tournaments after a nerf for Empire, and they did not do quite so well as normally. The sample size is still really tiny. And they have not even tried out anything to find a competitive list outside Palpmobile or Defenders. It is now hardly 3 weeks that they have not dominated the meta. There is not even a really solid meta yet!

But THE SKY IS FALLING guys XD, or like the OP would say, they are "upset" . This is what i always found pathetic about the loud vocal forum Imp, (and what i never saw in a similar fashion with Rebel players). I am totally 100% for a completely balanced X-Wing game with all factions competitive, but on this forum i am pretty partial. I just can't take all the trash and nonsense that comes from a loud, yet whiny group that seems only then halfway content when really everything goes their way.

1 minute ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

Take your sarcasm and smart arsery elsewhere mate. I was providing an example. I never claimed it was definitive evidence.

My point still stands. Palp is not nerfed. You just now need to actually think about how you might use him. He's less of a crutch and more of a strategic asset.

Well, yes he IS nerfed. But the the thing is, we don't now yet if he is not still good enough to be top competitive.

My gut feeling would be that he is still up there and can still take top 8 spots if people give him a chance. But he took a hit, let's be clear about that.

Palp and X7 are less "nerfed" -- they still effectively have the same game effect -- than they've had their skill floor raised.

Before, you could make your decision to use Palp after dice were rolled, and evaluate the choice with perfect information. Now, you have to make that choice on imperfect information, but a more experienced Palp player will be much better able to predict when to use Palp. Same with X7s; before, you could make a mistake by bumping a ship or obstacle, or choose not to clear a stress, and you got the effect; now you have to maneuver with greater skill, avoid bumping/blocking, etc.

The changes have raised the skill floor -- less experienced players will not be able to use them as effectively, but more experienced players still get almost the exact same value as before.

In contrast, Zuckuss and Manaroo had their abilities curtailed pretty significantly. Ironically there appears to be less whinging discussion about that change.

1 hour ago, ForceM said:

This very thread is a prime example. Rebels won 2 of 3 big tournaments after a nerf for Empire, and they did not do quite so well as normally. The sample size is still really tiny. And they have not even tried out anything to find a competitive list outside Palpmobile or Defenders. It is now hardly 3 weeks that they have not dominated the meta. There is not even a really solid meta yet!

As an Imp loyalist, I think you're missing the point. I'm not mad because Imps didn't win a few Opens- I'm mad because Imps are nearly NONEXISTANT in the top 24 of the last 3 opens. Just a few players, out of 72 were Imps- and not because Imps got replaced through the normal dev. cycle of wave releases, but because they got artificially obliterated out of the meta by an FAQ that directly targeted our strongest options. I suppose I wouldn't be as prickly about it if I felt like it was more evenhanded (like Sabine or Miranda nerfs included), and Imps were a bit more present at the top, but it really just ******* took us out of the game OVERNIGHT. Maybe it's just the suddenness, I don't know.

4 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

As an Imp loyalist, I think you're missing the point. I'm not mad because Imps didn't win a few Opens- I'm mad because Imps are nearly NONEXISTANT in the top 24 of the last 3 opens. Just a few players, out of 72 were Imps- and not because Imps got replaced through the normal dev. cycle of wave releases, but because they got artificially obliterated out of the meta by an FAQ that directly targeted our strongest options. I suppose I wouldn't be as prickly about it if I felt like it was more evenhanded (like Sabine or Miranda nerfs included), and Imps were a bit more present at the top, but it really just ******* took us out of the game OVERNIGHT. Maybe it's just the suddenness, I don't know.

You had one card downgraded a little bit. Now go back to flying triple aces like Imps used to do in order to win tournaments.

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think it's fascinating that people identify so strongly with one of the factions. Personally I like all and I play all.

That also means that complaints about a T-65 fix are not rebel-colored, but instead based on my love for the ship itself - and that's faction independent.

I never understood why people stick to a certain faction (unless it's because of money, of course). All factions can give you almost all kinds of lists.

I'm with you. I play all three factions and have at least (1) copy of each expansion minus epic ships. I could see how $$$ could limit someone but X-Wing Miniatures is one of two hobbies I have where cash is involved. The other is recreational shooting which is waaayyy more expensive to do than buy and play X-Wing Miniatures so needless to say most of my time goes into X-Wing because once the initial purchase of an expansion is made there is no other cost unless you play tournaments a lot. Either way its still cheaper than shooting all the time lol

6 minutes ago, Astech said:

You had one card downgraded a little bit. Now go back to flying triple aces like Imps used to do in order to win tournaments.

I fly triple aces a lot! It's fun. Right up until Miranda Slam bombs you with Sabine and you're instantly wiped off the board with no defense rolls involved. Really fun.

1 hour ago, ForceM said:

I play all 3 factions, I own all ships in multiples and i actually have played most tournaments as Empire. I am a huge fan of Imperial Ace builds, and my favorite pilot is actually Soontir Fel. I just adore flying the baron.

BUT on this forum i always felt compelled to defend Rebels and Scum. For a simple reason. The Empire only faction is so overly loud. And often overly wrong.

On the very rare occasions where they are not the number 1 faction:

- the sky is immediately falling

- everything Rebels ever had needs to be nerfed asap, from TLT to Regen to Sabine to Biggs.

- FFG is so unjust, they immediately need to give them more cheese with their whine...

And when they are the top faction (or one of them)

- everything is fine but could be better.

- everything Rebels ever had needs to be nerfed asap, from TLT to Regen to Sabine to Biggs.

- they are still whining, albeit on a higher level...

This very thread is a prime example. Rebels won 2 of 3 big tournaments after a nerf for Empire, and they did not do quite so well as normally. The sample size is still really tiny. And they have not even tried out anything to find a competitive list outside Palpmobile or Defenders. It is now hardly 3 weeks that they have not dominated the meta. There is not even a really solid meta yet!

But THE SKY IS FALLING guys XD, or like the OP would say, they are "upset" . This is what i always found pathetic about the loud vocal forum Imp, (and what i never saw in a similar fashion with Rebel players). I am totally 100% for a completely balanced X-Wing game with all factions competitive, but on this forum i am pretty partial. I just can't take all the trash and nonsense that comes from a loud, yet whiny group that seems only then halfway content when really everything goes their way.

This is actually interesting because I find myself doing the same thing, except for Imperials. My experience has been that the majority of whining comes from people who want the Empire nerfed, even though their tract record isn't as good as people assume. Heh, I guess we've been reading the wrong threads.

2 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

I fly triple aces a lot! It's fun. Right up until Miranda Slam bombs you with Sabine and you're instantly wiped off the board with no defense rolls involved. Really fun.

Instantly is an overstatement. Even Soontir takes 2 turns to kill with bombs alone. There are ways to play against bombs with aces. Imperial aces have a decent chance because of their maneuverability. bombs are a natural counter to aces that were just as effective with palpatine on the board.

I play rebel swarms, which are fun right up until I face Imperial aces.

13 minutes ago, Astech said:

You had one card downgraded a little bit. Now go back to flying triple aces like Imps used to do in order to win tournaments.

Thats the thing, we cant!! We were not able to do it pre FAQ, we certainly wont be post FAQ.

1 hour ago, Hawkstrike said:

Palp and X7 are less "nerfed" -- they still effectively have the same game effect -- than they've had their skill floor raised.

Before, you could make your decision to use Palp after dice were rolled, and evaluate the choice with perfect information. Now, you have to make that choice on imperfect information, but a more experienced Palp player will be much better able to predict when to use Palp. Same with X7s; before, you could make a mistake by bumping a ship or obstacle, or choose not to clear a stress, and you got the effect; now you have to maneuver with greater skill, avoid bumping/blocking, etc.

The changes have raised the skill floor -- less experienced players will not be able to use them as effectively, but more experienced players still get almost the exact same value as before.

In contrast, Zuckuss and Manaroo had their abilities curtailed pretty significantly. Ironically there appears to be less whinging discussion about that change.

Palp does not have the same effect, you have to chose before you use him AND you also must resolve its effect before you reroll. As for Defenders, it doesnt take that much skill to block them or to use a stressbot... They have always been predictable.

8 minutes ago, Astech said:

Instantly is an overstatement. Even Soontir takes 2 turns to kill with bombs alone. There are ways to play against bombs with aces. Imperial aces have a decent chance because of their maneuverability. bombs are a natural counter to aces that were just as effective with palpatine on the board.

I play rebel swarms, which are fun right up until I face Imperial aces.

Prox mines or Cluster Mines (even just one) definitely have a shot of killing Soontir with Sabine support.

18 minutes ago, Astech said:

Instantly is an overstatement. Even Soontir takes 2 turns to kill with bombs alone. There are ways to play against bombs with aces. Imperial aces have a decent chance because of their maneuverability. bombs are a natural counter to aces that were just as effective with palpatine on the board.

I play rebel swarms, which are fun right up until I face Imperial aces.

Miranda is played with cluster mines... 2 dices + 1 dmg she can 1 shot Soontir quite easily. Since there are 3 mines droped, she can potentially do 7 unblockable dmg in a round. She can also 1 shot defenders (i've seen it happen) and all our other aces... On top of that she can finish up any ace that survived with he TLT.

4 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Miranda is played with cluster mines ... 2 dices + 1 dmg she can 1 shot Soontir quite easily. Since there are 3 mines droped, she can potentially do 7 unblockable dmg in a round. She can also 1 shot defenders (i've seen it happen) and all our other aces... On top of that she can finish up any ace that survived with he TLT .

Not if Palpatine blocks one of the damage, then a single cluster token is still capped at 2 damage. If Soontir overlaps more than one token he's been flown wrong. Most things in the game can 1-shot a defender with the right roll, it's not unique to Miranda. Any ace with Autothrusters can beat Miranda in the endgame, most notable Fenn Rau and The Inquisitor.

12 minutes ago, Astech said:

Not if Palpatine blocks one of the damage, then a single cluster token is still capped at 2 damage. If Soontir overlaps more than one token he's been flown wrong. Most things in the game can 1-shot a defender with the right roll, it's not unique to Miranda. Any ace with Autothrusters can beat Miranda in the endgame, most notable Fenn Rau and The Inquisitor.

Palpatine isn't part of the a triple ace list, which seemed to be what you were discussing:

51 minutes ago, Astech said:

You had one card downgraded a little bit. Now go back to flying triple aces like Imps used to do in order to win tournaments.

44 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

I fly triple aces a lot! It's fun. Right up until Miranda Slam bombs you with Sabine and you're instantly wiped off the board with no defense rolls involved. Really fun.

40 minutes ago, Astech said:

Instantly is an overstatement. Even Soontir takes 2 turns to kill with bombs alone. There are ways to play against bombs with aces. Imperial aces have a decent chance because of their maneuverability. bombs are a natural counter to aces that were just as effective with palpatine on the board.

21 minutes ago, Astech said:

Not if Palpatine blocks one of the damage, then a single cluster token is still capped at 2 damage. If Soontir overlaps more than one token he's been flown wrong. Most things in the game can 1-shot a defender with the right roll, it's not unique to Miranda. Any ace with Autothrusters can beat Miranda in the endgame, most notable Fenn Rau and The Inquisitor.

yeah but the reason why we said all that is because:

57 minutes ago, Astech said:

You had one card downgraded a little bit. Now go back to flying triple aces like Imps used to do in order to win tournaments.

and then:

49 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

I fly triple aces a lot! It's fun. Right up until Miranda Slam bombs you with Sabine and you're instantly wiped off the board with no defense rolls involved. Really fun.

You have to follow the conversation... :-)

It's not just bombs alone. All those ships with 360 arcs and/or 4-5-6 dices attacks annihilate our aces. We rely on positioning and agility and both are almost completely negated. Miranda can also shoot 5 dices plasma trop and homers. How do you expect a 3 hull/3 agi ship to survive that??

We had to rely on super defensive ships to have a chance at winning. We were not even dominating the meta.

Edit: hehe, i wasnt fast enough :-)

5 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think it's fascinating that people identify so strongly with one of the factions. Personally I like all and I play all.

That also means that complaints about a T-65 fix are not rebel-colored, but instead based on my love for the ship itself - and that's faction independent.

I never understood why people stick to a certain faction (unless it's because of money, of course). All factions can give you almost all kinds of lists.

I play all three, but I find myself going back to Imperials for multiple reasons. As someone above mentioned, all factions have access to the similar types of ships but those ships still function differently. If two attack dice weren't so weak, I'd probably be flying A-wings, but Imperials have a more interesting variety of ships that fit that playstyle (good dials, agility focused, with reposition actions).

The other big reason is that it's the least played faction in my area and I don't find mirror matches nearly as interesting.

44 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Prox mines or Cluster Mines (even just one) definitely have a shot of killing Soontir with Sabine support.

Proton Bombs can whack Soontir without Sabine support...if the right damage cards are drawn. And Palpy has nothing to say about that.

And it seems to me that the tourney scene is made up of mostly fair weather ex-Imperial traitors. Is this how you show loyalty?