Yeah, I hope the addition of the results of Worlds will better convince people that Imps are in a bad way. There has been plenty of time for something good to come out, but nothing competitive enough has.
Should i be upset?
1 hour ago, SabineKey said:Yeah, I hope the addition of the results of Worlds will better convince people that Imps are in a bad way. There has been plenty of time for something good to come out, but nothing competitive enough has.
No, the apologist will be here in a second. Any minute there will be cries of "Everyone got scared off by the FAQ, Imps just need time man." and "Palps still really good man, I won a store tournament with it last week. I mean, there were only 3 other players, but I still won." and "Dude TIE/SF is Dark Side Jesus, risen again to become lord of the Sith, you should try it, man."
17 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:No, the apologist will be here in a second. Any minute there will be cries of "Everyone got scared off by the FAQ, Imps just need time man." and "Palps still really good man, I won a store tournament with it last week. I mean, there were only 3 other players, but I still won." and "Dude TIE/SF is Dark Side Jesus, risen again to become lord of the Sith, you should try it, man."
Yes, though I am hoping for less of it. It is kind of hard to use those points in the face of, what? Four major events since the FAQ?
I play a lot of Imperial. Not just in X-wing, but Armada too. There's something about the style that I just keep wanting to come back to, despite playing all factions with no real affiliations or personal investment. I've been playing "off meta" Imp lists for quite a while, but what I've noticed is the number of ways you can experiment and remain competitive with Imperials has reduced. Rebels have increased in that (albeit from a low baseline so the only way was up), and Scum have remained just as toolboxy as ever.
These days, the way I approach games in terms of selecting a faction for my playstyle is pretty much:
Do I want to be competitive? - Scum
Do I want to play with mechanics? - Rebels
Do I want to have fun? - Imperial
This sounds odd, but for all it's flaws, I still get the most fun out of Imps. I can (and have) throw together a Scum list for a tournament and walk away with a good result, perhaps a win. Rebels, I can hope for Top 8 if I go full meta on it (they're probably my weakest at this stage). Imperials, though... I guess their reckless aggression is kind of my thing. I get a kick out of running multiple Strikers or Bombers, or even /D Defenders (underrated). They're still a fun faction to fly, but in all the games I've flown with them to date, I think what's missing most is a lynchpin. Imps don't need a card buff/nerf to be competitive again, they just need a backbone ship. The Decimator filled this role for a while, until the single high PS/dual mid PS ace that usually accompanied it fell out of competitive scenes due to... various reasons. It could be argued that the OGP w/ Palp filled this role too, but that was more of a 29 point support role. What they need now, in my reasoning at least, is a combat capable tank. Biggs and pretty much any ARC pilot does it for Rebels. Fenn, Dengar, and Asajj do it for Scum. Imperials, however, don't really have that. An argument can be made for /x7 Defenders in this role, but their cost-to-evaded-hits ratio over the course of a game doesn't quite stack against the Scum equivalent anymore, and their cost-to-effect versus Biggs/ARCs is similarly askew.
This is why I'm hopeful there's something coming with The Last Jedi offerings (that new stretch Hummer Interceptor is a good start) that may offer that new, dynamic lynchpin the Imps lack. I'd equally argue the Rebels need a more diverse jouster or flanker (hands up for a flex position ship!) that can just pump some reliable damage without costing the earth, but neither need a Scum nerf to get back in the game. What they need, is a carefully considered ship that eschews fluff in favour of a carefully considered, playtested, and balanced peg to fill the gaping hole in both factions.
On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 10:31 AM, rafcpl6868 said:Unfortunately, to keep theme, trallyfocusuantity over quality, hurting the chances onto design im perial ships with lots of slots around existing ships from the cannon. It is star wars and thats how the imperials operate in star wars.
Well, that theme can be kept. Make Imperial ships cheapoer. a lot cheaper. Or more dodgy.
Make Interceptors and similar ships Agility 4. Make a basic TIE only 10 points. Make most of their ships much cheaper. Make Imperial only abilities that really fpcus on swarms.
Speaking of which, has anyone tried to do a chart of the top cut of the past three years? I looked up list juggler but there is a lot of missing information for the top 4 (I think that was when FFG was trying their failed TOME project).
Edited by Marinealver1 minute ago, BadMotivator said:Well, that theme can be kept. Make Imperial ships cheapoer. a lot cheaper. Or more dodgy.
Make Interceptors and similar ships Agility 4. Make a basic TIE only 10 points. Make most of their ships much cheaper. Make Imperial only abilities that really fpcus on swarms.
See also: "How to break the game", "Power Creep", and "The Fundamentals of Overreaction".
16 minutes ago, NakedDex said:See also: "How to break the game", "Power Creep", and "The Fundamentals of Overreaction".
Hence Scum dominance
1 hour ago, Johen Dood said:No, the apologist will be here in a second. Any minute there will be cries of "Everyone got scared off by the FAQ, Imps just need time man." and "Palps still really good man, I won a store tournament with it last week. I mean, there were only 3 other players, but I still won." and "Dude TIE/SF is Dark Side Jesus, risen again to become lord of the Sith, you should try it, man."
Palpatine did make worlds 2017...
We will have to look at how many imperials entered to see how far they are behind rebels. The gap is very likely not as gigantic as you think. The real issue is scum.
9 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:Palpatine did make worlds 2017...
We will have to look at how many imperials entered to see how far they are behind rebels. The gap is very likely not as gigantic as you think. The real issue is scum.
Fair, but the amount in the top cut is still telling. The top four was evenly distributed between Rebel and Scum.
7 minutes ago, SabineKey said:Fair, but the amount in the top cut is still telling. The top four was evenly distributed between Rebel and Scum.
Yes, it is undenieable that imperials are lagging behind a bit. I am not sure (luckily not a game designer so I don't have to) wether rebels need to be taken down a notch, too, or if the empire just can't deal with the dominant scum lists well and nerfing these to oblivion would already be enough. Because against rebels, Kylo Ren is just mean - against Protectorates, not so much.
I went 5-1 with Imps at my GNK kit yesterday, boys, only losing the final game to Dengar.
What more evidence could you want????
8 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:Yes, it is undenieable that imperials are lagging behind a bit. I am not sure (luckily not a game designer so I don't have to) wether rebels need to be taken down a notch, too, or if the empire just can't deal with the dominant scum lists well and nerfing these to oblivion would already be enough. Because against rebels, Kylo Ren is just mean - against Protectorates, not so much.
Considering one of the primary things keeping classic Imp aces off the table is Rebel Bombs, I do think something should be done about that. But aside from that, I do think Rebels are in a fair place. Scum has the dominant position. It would be interesting to see how much nerf against the Jumpmaster itself would alter that.
I think the more you hit Jumps the more you hand the game over to Rebel bomb/tlt lists.
TIEs with TLTs. Patience, all you Imperial players out there. 3 TLT aggressors and your choice of ace is going to be good.
10 minutes ago, Astech said:TIEs with TLTs. Patience, all you Imperial players out there. 3 TLT aggressors and your choice of ace is going to be good.
**** off.
17 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:**** off.
Darn, that was uncalled for. Unguided rockets alone will make a huge difference to the swarm efficiency of Bombers. you can complain to your heart's desire, Imperial players, but know that you've had a total of 6 months out of the meta, tops. Rebels are still leading the "meta-stomp".
2 minutes ago, Astech said:Darn, that was uncalled for. Unguided rockets alone will make a huge difference to the swarm efficiency of Bombers. you can complain to your heart's desire, Imperial players, but know that you've had a total of 6 months out of the meta, tops. Rebels are still leading the "meta-stomp".
TIE Aggressor with TLT may be grey but that doesn't mean it's Imperial. TLT can die in a fire.
That's you opinion. TLT (Which I admit is a pain) fulfils an essential role in suppressing fat turrets and other health tanks. Giving the Imperials the ability to burn down a stresshog in a single turn of fire is an enormously useful ability that Imperials have yet to achieve.
Are you crazy? I've had squads that killed 2 Y-Wings in one round, let alone one!
Imperial Squads?
Bringing TLT to Imperials is an inexplicable design move, in my opinion. The turret dynamic is already the dullest aspect of the game (again, I respect that others may feel differently), and if they become a staple of Imperial lists as well then the game will lose all its diversity. I hope I'm wrong. Unguided rockets however.... well anything to help TIE Bombers is good, right?
10 minutes ago, Astech said:Imperial Squads?
No I thought I'd support a conversation about Imperial Squads by talking about my Scum list.
Yes Imperial Squads. Seb Brady came 22nd at Worlds, last time I faced his quad Y-Wings he lost two of them before he could fire (though I think I did get a Direct Hit to bag the second one).
Cool stuff, but Imperials still lack a lot of reliability since Palp got the nerf. TLTs address that.
13 minutes ago, Astech said:Cool stuff, but Imperials still lack a lot of reliability since Palp got the nerf. TLTs address that.
Could give us Mindlink as well, that'd help. Nothing screams 'I'm an Imperial player' like Mindlinked TLT ships running away from the enemy.