10 minutes ago, rafcpl6868 said:

You all keep whining about the defender nerf, and it really isn't a huge change, you still will get your free evade provided that you don't hit anything, and aren't stressed. X7 is still fantastic and viable for that ship.

I think the Defender nerf was fine (it makes more sense now, honestly), but still a nerf against a list that was only doing OK before the FAQ. Thus you see them take a hit. They'll never perform as well as they once did, which like I said, was only OK in competitive events.

But I overall agree, X7 is still good. I think the main point is that it's the ONLY decent option for Imps now, and even then it's nowhere near Kanan/Biggs, Miranda Bombs, Paratanni, or Triple Jumps.

8 minutes ago, rafcpl6868 said:

Unfortunately, to keep theme, the imperials generally go quantity over quality, hurting the chances to design imperial ships with lots of slots around existing ships from the cannon. It is star wars and thats how the imperials operate in star wars.

I don't think the theme argument holds water at all, especially as people defined the Empire's theme as highly skilled aces when people were flying Whisper and Soontir. Maybe I'm wrong but from what I know of IA and Armada, the Imperials don't have fewer options for upgrades or slots because of this do they?

You can maintain the theme that they have but still give them access to unique upgrades or upgrade slots that would fit that theme. For example you could have an Imperial Theme Illicit, something like "Squad Training/Tactics" for example, or more unique upgrades that are Imperial only that reflect their training like System Officer and Fleet Officer. Even if they don't want to do that, then their ships should have some benefit that fits that theme (comparably cheaper generics?) but we don't see that either.

Just now, Johen Dood said:

I think the Defender nerf was fine (it makes more sense now, honestly), but still a nerf against a list that was only doing OK before the FAQ. Thus you see them take a hit. They'll never perform as well as they once did, which like I said, was only OK in competitive events.

But I overall agree, X7 is still good. I think the main point is that it's the ONLY decent option for Imps now, and even then it's nowhere near Kanan/Biggs, Miranda Bombs, Paratanni, or Triple Jumps.

Miranda is probably the single strongest pilot in the game, so I think that there should be a carnor type pilot who prevents regen at range one or something like that, as she is way out of hand.

Except against tie swarms! How have they managed to stay relevant so long?

7 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I don't think the theme argument holds water at all, especially as people defined the Empire's theme as highly skilled aces when people were flying Whisper and Soontir. Maybe I'm wrong but from what I know of IA and Armada, the Imperials don't have fewer options for upgrades or slots because of this do they?

You can maintain the theme that they have but still give them access to unique upgrades or upgrade slots that would fit that theme. For example you could have an Imperial Theme Illicit, something like "Squad Training/Tactics" for example, or more unique upgrades that are Imperial only that reflect their training like System Officer and Fleet Officer. Even if they don't want to do that, then their ships should have some benefit that fits that theme (comparably cheaper generics?) but we don't see that either.

Ties were built to be generic and uniform so upgrades generally don't make sense except in certain cases, royal guard ties or munition/crew carriers.

I think that they shouldn't receive more slots, just more imperial only epts or abilities that reflect squad flying. Oh wait, swarm leader already exists and so does youngster. Imperials with extremely high ps are basically limited to soontir, juno, and vader other than that, they are generic pilots for our protagonists to shoot. Thats the nature of the villain faction essentially you lack the plot armor of rebels.

You guys just need to pray to the dice god's before and during games.

the defender nerf was incredibly mild, it almost didnt even affect them. All it means is you cant fly like a bumbling idiot anymore and still have an evade. Stress doesnt cancel it unless you for some reason dont have mk2 engines or you got multi-stressed: and multistress is rare.

The palp nerf was dumb, but i almost never use him anyway. I have been using tie/sf, strikers, bombers, and the UPS a ton. Yes i use defenders alot too but theyre there to do what the name implies: DEFEND! I take it because they draw attention and can deal with it, and it works. People fixate on it and meanwhile Backdraft farts crits on everyone.

True story.

I recently had the pleasure of getting my backside well and truly handed to me in a Regional Tournament last month by a guy who was flying a list which, according to internet wisdom, should not be on the table.

I'm not the greatest player by any stretch of the imagination but by the time I met him I was 3-0 up with 2 x Defenders and 1 x Inq TAP, so when I saw what he brought to the table I was like "Hey, I can handle this".

I was wrong.

The list I faced?

• 97 points
• Han + Predator + Luke + C3PO + Engine + Title
• Jake + PTL + VI + AT + Prockets

Oh, and the player's name was Jack Mooney. He finished 4th at the Worlds with this list and this is the only one he ever flies. He only ever plays at tournaments and doesn't tinker with it. And as an aside, he's a really nice guy and a great opponent.

Is there a moral to these ramblings?

Nerfs are an excuse. Following the "meta" in an attempt to get good is the X-Wing equivilant of Codex Hopping in 40k.

Cheers
Baaa

That's my secret....

I'm always upset.

5 minutes ago, rafcpl6868 said:

Ties were built to be generic and uniform so upgrades generally don't make sense except in certain cases, royal guard ties or munition/crew carriers.

I think that they shouldn't receive more slots, just more imperial only epts or abilities that reflect squad flying. Oh wait, swarm leader already exists and so does youngster. Imperials with extremely high ps are basically limited to soontir, juno, and vader other than that, they are generic pilots for our protagonists to shoot. Thats the nature of the villain faction essentially you lack the plot armor of rebels.

Story mode does not have anything to do, nor does it need to, with game balance.

Swarm Leader/Swarm Tactics/Squad Leader are not an "Imperial Only" cards, but I'd be fine if that was how they flavored them more by providing leadership type EPTs to Imperials. Youngster is definitely one good option but since that ability is on a pilot (not an upgrade, so it works only with Youngster) and one of the worst types of cards (action EPT) it doesn't see much play beyond just for fun.

3 minutes ago, Baaa said:

True story.

I recently had the pleasure of getting my backside well and truly handed to me in a Regional Tournament last month by a guy who was flying a list which, according to internet wisdom, should not be on the table.

I'm not the greatest player by any stretch of the imagination but by the time I met him I was 3-0 up with 2 x Defenders and 1 x Inq TAP, so when I saw what he brought to the table I was like "Hey, I can handle this".

I was wrong.

The list I faced?

• 97 points
• Han + Predator + Luke + C3PO + Engine + Title
• Jake + PTL + VI + AT + Prockets

Oh, and the player's name was Jack Mooney. He finished 4th at the Worlds with this list and this is the only one he ever flies. He only ever plays at tournaments and doesn't tinker with it. And as an aside, he's a really nice guy and a great opponent.

Is there a moral to these ramblings?

Nerfs are an excuse. Following the "meta" in an attempt to get good is the X-Wing equivilant of Codex Hopping in 40k.

Cheers
Baaa

Well I guess the best players in the world playing post FAQ are just codex hopping sheep. I guess Jack Mooney showed them!

4 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

Well I guess the best players in the world playing post FAQ are just codex hopping sheep. I guess Jack Mooney showed them!

Thank you for your meaningful reply.

Have a look at when his list was the top dog and everyone was moaning about it. Count how many FAQ's or so called nerfs have been put in place since then.

Really, really good players don't come on the internet to moan about changes to the game, they adapt to them and get on with learning how to play with them.

Cheers

Baaa

9 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

Well I guess the best players in the world playing post FAQ are just codex hopping sheep. I guess Jack Mooney showed them!

I mean typically yes. If you look at mtg or most other competitive games top players as a rule gravitate away from risk. Is it a risk to play a list that just got nerfed in a large tournament without extensive playtesting? Yes, yes it is. Top players will usually pick the current least risky and most easily powerful list because why do extra work to gain value when you don't have to.

21 minutes ago, Phoenix5454 said:

You guys just need to pray to the dice god's before and during games.

What dice gods? Bombs and Conners don't care about dice...

The problem with the Empire is that the only way to fly it, apart from the Deci, is high-agility, action-dependent fragile ships (and in wave 11, they get yet another fragile, 5-hp ship). However, the game is shifting more and more towards guaranteed effects: highly-accurate bombs with Sabine K-Wings, TLTs, guaranteed stress from ventress, tractors from Ketsu and Quadjumper, new stressdroid carriers and so on... all of these things screw imperials big time, while having not such a great effect on other factions. On top of that, Scum now get the best ace in the game (Fenn Rau), with access to Mindlink and the most broken ship in the game as a wingman (or two), which makes playing Empire even more pointless...

Rebels and Scum can play around with various, effective builds, while the Empire struggles in an uphill battle to put anything on the table that will at least try to keep up...

13 minutes ago, Baaa said:

Thank you for your meaningful reply.

Have a look at when his list was the top dog and everyone was moaning about it. Count how many FAQ's or so called nerfs have been put in place since then.

Really, really good players don't come on the internet to moan about changes to the game, they adapt to them and get on with learning how to play with them.

Cheers

Baaa

Actually, one-ish:

1. The large ship half points. (Which took wayyyy too darn long and was much deserved, AND didn't affect the actual table efficacy any.)

(The nerf that DIDD"T happen: Large ship boost didn't get nerfed)

2. TLT created as a semi-counter. <- not even a nerf, but something to combat large ships with 1 / 0 agi.

8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Actually, one-ish:

1. The large ship half points. (Which took wayyyy too darn long and was much deserved, AND didn't affect the actual table efficacy any.)

(The nerf that DIDD"T happen: Large ship boost didn't get nerfed)

2. TLT created as a semi-counter. <- not even a nerf, but something to combat large ships with 1 / 0 agi.

Both of which led to Fat Han lists being branded next to useless amidst much rejoicing from people who hated turreted ships.

Cheers
Baaa

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

I look at the last 2 major competitive events:

Naboo results: no Imperial in the top 8. There was TLTs (5) and PWT(3). In those squads there was 3 with a bombing K wing and there was 3 with Jumpmasters.

Tatoine had only 1 Imperial in the top 8 (triple Ds... :-) All other squads had either PWT (3) or TLT (4). There was 2 with bombing K wings and 3 with Jumpmasters.

When for 2 major events 15 squads out of 16 in the top 8 had turrets and there was only 1 Imperial squad, i think we have a pattern. Turrets > maneuverability which is Imps specialty. TLTs > high agility ships, which is another Imperial specialty. Slaming bombers (with TLTs!) beat both agi and maneuverability...

The only things that was keeping Imperials competitive have been nerfed. Not saying it wasnt needed but it reveals some design flaws. Giving the faction access to TLTs might be a temporary fix but i think something needs to be done to make maneuverability and agility useful again. If the game become turrets vs turrets wouldnt it remove part of the fun?

As an Imperial player i am also upset that i had to buy a 100$ ship to get the 1 upgrade card i needed to be competitive only to see it nerfed to oblivion 3 months later. Now i'm left with what 300-500% dollars of weak ships? Not fun for someone whos been playing for less than a year. Not sure i want to spend that much again to have access to a good faction...

I also like to play a competitive game with an unfair asvantage over my opponents. I weep with you, friend

19 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Actually, one-ish:

1. The large ship half points. (Which took wayyyy too darn long and was much deserved, AND didn't affect the actual table efficacy any.)

(The nerf that DIDD"T happen: Large ship boost didn't get nerfed)

2. TLT created as a semi-counter. <- not even a nerf, but something to combat large ships with 1 / 0 agi.

And both these "nerfs" affected ALL large ships, equally. Fat Han didn't fall out of the meta because of those nerfs, he fell out of the meta because there are better options now (like Ghost & Dash).

Don't worry the Imperial's time shall come.

TLT Aggressors shall once again conquer the meta in the name of the Galactic Empire.

Lol, it wasnt long ago that Imperials were the majority of Top 8s. Like 4 months ago. Let it swing the other way for a while! Imperials are just as competitive. It is just some of the stuff that is good against Imps is currently popular. Thatll change. No need to worry!

5 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Don't worry the Imperial's time shall come.

TLT Aggressors shall once again conquer the meta in the name of the Galactic Empire.

I somehow doubt another fragile Imp ship with AGI 2 which is basically a crappier, less flexible version of a Y-Wing is going to change anything. Not unless the dial is godly, and unique pilot abilities are amazing + uniques have EPTs. Short of that, they'll just be bought for their TLTs.

1 hour ago, Johen Dood said:

I somehow doubt another fragile Imp ship with AGI 2 which is basically a crappier, less flexible version of a Y-Wing is going to change anything. Not unless the dial is godly, and unique pilot abilities are amazing + uniques have EPTs. Short of that, they'll just be bought for their TLTs.

RAC did make the meta during the Age of Fat Han. Agressor TLT will make the meta in the second coming of Thug Life.

2 hours ago, AlexW said:

For example, we haven't seen bomb heavy Imperial or Scum lists because those combine so well with Sabine and Advanced Slam. The Imperials have a couple of pilots that have nice bombing abilities, and they show up a bit here and there, but they don't make bombs sing like the rebel combinations.

That one also upset me. You have a ship that's already a great bomber because it can SLAM, it has a PWT, it has a crew slot and it can equip TLTs. On top of that a pilot for that ship has one of the best ability in the game.

On the other side the equivalent ship, the Punusher, is one of the worst in the game.

Now what can we do? They could have given a Imperials access to a Boosted bomb (Sabine ability). That way one faction would have an easier time placing bombs (Rebels) but the other one would compensate this by making them more powerful. Instead they gave the upgrade to the Kwing??

The worst part is that thematically and esthetically K-wings look like great missile/torpedo ships and bombers/punishers looks like the one supposed to handle bombs.... Now to fix the bombers/punishers, they are using missiles??

7 minutes ago, Thormind said:

The worst part is that thematically and esthetically K-wings look like great missile/torpedo ships and bombers/punishers looks like the one supposed to handle bombs.... Now to fix the bombers/punishers, they are using missiles??

You never know, the Bomblet Generator may be a double mine upgrade that does something cool that triggers on red maneuvers. That would make the PS8 Scurrg the only Rebel ship that could use it.

Or maybe it does something to your Perform Action step? The Bomber, K-Wing, Punisher, and Scurrg could all use it but only the Punisher and Scurrg could bring Advanced Sensors to get an action in the rounds that they use the generator.

1 hour ago, Johen Dood said:

I think the Defender nerf was fine (it makes more sense now, honestly), but still a nerf against a list that was only doing OK before the FAQ. Thus you see them take a hit. They'll never perform as well as they once did, which like I said, was only OK in competitive events.

But I overall agree, X7 is still good. I think the main point is that it's the ONLY decent option for Imps now, and even then it's nowhere near Kanan/Biggs, Miranda Bombs, Paratanni, or Triple Jumps.

Defenders are the ONLY option? WTF. People making top 8 in regionals with Quickdraw and Backdraft. Decimator + Carnor/Echo/Whisper doing good also. Lot of options out there that nobody has played with because of this thinking of ONLY option.

Create instead of duplicate

17 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

I somehow doubt another fragile Imp ship with AGI 2 which is basically a crappier, less flexible version of a Y-Wing is going to change anything. Not unless the dial is godly, and unique pilot abilities are amazing + uniques have EPTs. Short of that, they'll just be bought for their TLTs.

TLT Ywings are still relevant, and so will these. A fragile 2 agility that can take LWF. People said the same about TIE S/F's.

Im glad not everyone thinks like you do or this game wouldn't have made it passed Wave 4.

4 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

You never know, the Bomblet Generator may be a double mine upgrade that does something cool that triggers on red maneuvers. That would make the PS8 Scurrg the only Rebel ship that could use it.

Lets hope. Still Rebels would get access to it :-)