I look at the last 2 major competitive events:

Naboo results: no Imperial in the top 8. There was TLTs (5) and PWT(3). In those squads there was 3 with a bombing K wing and there was 3 with Jumpmasters.

Tatoine had only 1 Imperial in the top 8 (triple Ds... :-) All other squads had either PWT (3) or TLT (4). There was 2 with bombing K wings and 3 with Jumpmasters.

When for 2 major events 15 squads out of 16 in the top 8 had turrets and there was only 1 Imperial squad, i think we have a pattern. Turrets > maneuverability which is Imps specialty. TLTs > high agility ships, which is another Imperial specialty. Slaming bombers (with TLTs!) beat both agi and maneuverability...

The only things that was keeping Imperials competitive have been nerfed. Not saying it wasnt needed but it reveals some design flaws. Giving the faction access to TLTs might be a temporary fix but i think something needs to be done to make maneuverability and agility useful again. If the game become turrets vs turrets wouldnt it remove part of the fun?

As an Imperial player i am also upset that i had to buy a 100$ ship to get the 1 upgrade card i needed to be competitive only to see it nerfed to oblivion 3 months later. Now i'm left with what 300-500% dollars of weak ships? Not fun for someone whos been playing for less than a year. Not sure i want to spend that much again to have access to a good faction...

This is unfortunate the other shoe I was fearing would drop. There is some encouraging experimental lists I've been hearing about with the /sf, but it has yet to face top level play.

I think a lot of people don't fully realize that what Imps had to face pushed them towards Palp and Defenders more then the inherent strength of them. And with them nerfed, the Empire's old lists have to deal with all the cards that pushed them out to begin with.

But chin up. Things come and go in cycles. Given time, I'm sure Imp players will figure something new out, even with the nerfed cards, which still have uses. FFG will watch tournament results and plan accordingly to restore balance.

Imp player here too, and like you, I bought a Raider about 2 months ago for the cards (TIE Adv titles + ATC + Emperor). Really sad to see Imps just get F00ck'd by the FAQ and completely obliterated out of the competitive scene overnight.

Only one list, a ridiculously boring vanilla PS 7 Triple crack Defenders made any kind of showing- and that list is just so un-dynamic compared to the competitive scum and rebel lists. Imps were completely propped up by Palp and Defenders- and now that they're nerfed, Imperials just went extinct. But hey, triple Jumps is back, so....yay? Oh and we're getting a crappier version of the Y-wing in the next wave....yay?

It's funny because Imps weren't even dominating the competitive scene before the FAQ- they did OK but nothing spectacular. Now they're just....gone. Will be interesting to see how Hoth turns out this weekend.

I suspect that the poor results Imperials had in the recent System Open events are more due to the reaction of players to the nerfs than from the actual effect the nerfs had on the game.

Over time people will get Palpatine and X7 Defenders back on the table and realize that they are still solid.

Also people are used to countering Defenders.

1 minute ago, WWHSD said:

I suspect that the poor results Imperials had in the recent System Open events are more due to the reaction of players to the nerfs than from the actual effect the nerfs had on the game.

Over time people will get Palpatine and X7 Defenders back on the table and realize that they are still solid.

That is a factor to consider. While disappointing, the two system opens are too early to tell the full extent of how the nerfs will affect the Empire as a whole.

Yeah, what we're seeing is probably a knee-jerk reaction to the FAQ and people going back to list archetypes that a) they're comfortable with and b) they're sure work. Palp's still good. Defenders are still good. Decimators are good. Kylo Ren's good. Let's not start writing the Empire's obituary just yet.

2 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I suspect that the poor results Imperials had in the recent System Open events are more due to the reaction of players to the nerfs than from the actual effect the nerfs had on the game.

Over time people will get Palpatine and X7 Defenders back on the table and realize that they are still solid.

This may be some of that, but I also would point out that, more than the other two factions, the Imperials have to rely just on their ships and pilot abilities since both Scum and Rebels have about twice as many unique faction cards to fall back on.

Imperials also have fewer upgrade slot combinations on their ships (currently no turret, no droid, no illicit type slot). While this certainly isn't the end all, it is a factor in a game that is increasingly makes use of combinations of cards and pilot abilities.

Ships and, especially pilot abilities, are far less flexible than upgrade cards since they are easier to counter .

As others have said, popular lists go up and down as the meta constantly changes. You have the right to be upset over a change that affects your favorite list(s) / playstyle(s). That being said, I would encourage you to look at things differently:

- Epic play is a lot of fun and the Raider is a competitive huge ship in its own right. Exploring that road will help you enjoy your full money's worth.

- The game was sliding a bit too close to a place where only a few lists were viable. While FFG's erratas may sometimes feel like a blow, they do tend to shake up the meta and re-introduce a lot of lists back into the mix. This makes events and casual nights a lot more exciting.

- They also don't make these changes lightly.

Hope that helps!

Give it time, people have been so stuck on Palp/Aces or Palp Defenders that they have not even bothered with Deathfire,Bren, S/F's all that much. Imps are best carriers for Swarm Leader, Target Synchronizer + FCS. I think there are great Imp lists out there begging to be discovered.

Actually I would say that Imps are alive and well. They seem to be out in large numbers in most events. I think the problem is that they are popular and therefore a lot of players tech. against them. For instance, defenders are really good (and were even better). Every list therefore has to be able to beat them hence the lack of defenders on top tables as they all get beat down or people expect to be beat down so don't take them. Such is the meta.

42 minutes ago, Thormind said:

As an Imperial player i am also upset that i had to buy a 100$ ship to get the 1 upgrade card i needed to be competitive only to see it nerfed to oblivion 3 months later.

This statement is why there aren't any imperials directly after the nerfs.

Not that your statement has any truth to it but rather the misguided sentiment that a) you could only play palp defenders competitively and b) that list is dead and palp is bad now. There are a lot of people who agree with you but they are wrong. Having played against both versions of palp piloted by the same person and in the same regional winning list it's barely a noticeable nerf.

8 minutes ago, AlexW said:

This may be some of that, but I also would point out that, more than the other two factions, the Imperials have to rely just on their ships and pilot abilities since both Scum and Rebels have about twice as many unique faction cards to fall back on. Ships and, especially pilot abilities, are far less flexible than upgrade cards since they are easier to counter .

This needs to be said more. ALL Imp lists are really simple, and generally have one way to build them. Scum and Rebels have so many upgrades and more importantly LOADS of upgrade slots, that allows for supreme flexibility and fine tuning of lists for competitive play. Also, Imps are really agility/evasion reliant, and pretty much everything in current meta makes agi/evasion worthless (bombs, sabine, TLTs, homing missiles, etc.). Shields + Hull are king, and Imps pretty much suck at that.

14 minutes ago, Rodafowa said:

Yeah, what we're seeing is probably a knee-jerk reaction to the FAQ and people going back to list archetypes that a) they're comfortable with and b) they're sure work. Palp's still good. Defenders are still good. Decimators are good. Kylo Ren's good. Let's not start writing the Empire's obituary just yet.

Palp is OK, but now he's WAY more unreliable than before, and with the same cost as before, he's just straight up MUCH worse. His ability is still OK, but nowhere near as good as before. Defenders are again, OK, but they're the only ship that Imps have that can at all keep up with the current meta. Plus they're really predictable, easily counter-able, and generally only built a couple of ways. Decimators are Imps only decent large ship, and it's NO WAY as cost effective as it's scum and rebel counterparts. It doesn't even remotely compare to the Ghost, Shadowcaster, or Jumpmaster. It's on par with the YT-1300, but nothing particularly unique about it- and I would argue the YT-1300 is better because it can take neat tricky things like smuggling compartment. Kylo is situational at best, requires an action (so totally shut down by stress or blocking), is easy to counter with certain cards (determination, Chewabacca, etc.), and doesn't have the game impact most people think it does. He'll maybe resolve his ability once or twice a game, and that's not all that amazing- it's just OK.

Basically Imps are now the 'meh' faction, OK at a couple of things, but completely outclassed by Scum and Rebels in every possible way, except that they have Defenders. I'm betting they get stomped at Hoth again this weekend.

29 minutes ago, Rodafowa said:

Yeah, what we're seeing is probably a knee-jerk reaction to the FAQ and people going back to list archetypes that a) they're comfortable with and b) they're sure work. Palp's still good. Defenders are still good. Decimators are good. Kylo Ren's good. Let's not start writing the Empire's obituary just yet.

I think you're right. After a brief interlude of the sky has fallen and the Emperor is dead, Imperial players will find out the sky hasn't moved and will revel to shouts of "Long live the Emperor".

There wasn't a lot of time between the nerfs and the latest tournaments, so players chose a "safe" replacement list until they can figure out new builds with the new restrictions.

I do not think so.

What was driving Imperials put of the meta IMHO was torp boats, Degaroo, and Paratani. Even with that, you have some very skilled players doing well with imperial lists, and a slightly larger pool of rebel players also doing well. They were all looking and all looking to lists with the Jumpmaster as an integral element. I also think that Latts crew is probably just a hair too good, but clearly there is a chassis/cost problem (that was pointed out when it was released) with the Jumpmaster that FGG has chosen to errata 3-4 different things rather than simply address the problem directly.

It is their game, they can do as they please.

Like it or not, flying imperial is much more of a skill/reward faction than the other two. With the new FAQ, Dengaroo is dead, u-boats have been brought down a notch, and Paratanni has also been adjusted. With the exception of Dengaroo, those lists will continue to exist, but will require more skill to fly well, and I think that the other factions will start to claw back as a result.

I do not believe that the Palp need was that bad. The defenders got hit harder, but honestly needed to be. Are they still good? Yes, but they are not OP, and not really over costed IMO because they are vulnerable to poor flying.

What i dont understand is they could have changed Palp to at least keep him useful. Now you even have to use his ability before rerolls. Is he worth more than say Gunner or General Hux in his current form?

Some changes that would have probably balanced him:

- Keep him exactly as he was but he cant be used 2 turns in a row. I really like that one.

- Keep him as he was but at the beginning of the combat phase you have to say if hes going to be used for offense or defense if he wasnt used on an obstacle roll.

- Make the current changes but lower the cost to 2 slots and 3 points. He can now be used in a Tie shuttle and his partners will be more powerful.

- Make current changes but lower the cost to one slot and six points. I also like that one. Hes not an auto include but hes still an option. If you put him in a shuttle it can be crewed with something else to keep that setup playable.

Its not really imperials being inherently worse its scum being way too good. I personally hate the faction as a whole since it came in with some ridiculous stuff and continues to get worse: see jump master. Rebels happen to have some stuff that will always work against jank like regen or TLT carriers. Imperials still have plenty of viable options, tie swarms, Autothrusted interceptors, x7's, well flown strikers, even bombers are pretty good.

30 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

This needs to be said more. ALL Imp lists are really simple, and generally have one way to build them. Scum and Rebels have so many upgrades and more importantly LOADS of upgrade slots, that allows for supreme flexibility and fine tuning of lists for competitive play.

I agree and think that people dismiss this notion too easily (and did when I brought it up elsewhere). For the strong upgrade cards that every faction has access to, you start to look for the right ship to put them on, but that also involves the possibility of combining it with other upgrade cards.

For example, we haven't seen bomb heavy Imperial or Scum lists because those combine so well with Sabine and Advanced Slam. The Imperials have a couple of pilots that have nice bombing abilities, and they show up a bit here and there, but they don't make bombs sing like the rebel combinations.

With fewer unique cards and fewer upgrade slots, it's just simple math that they don't have as many opportunities to come up with strong combinations.

This isn't to say that they can't compete or that they don't have strong cards, but to me it's very clear that they are relying on fewer options than the other two factions at this point and this could hurt their list diversity and it's no surprise that it may take longer to find viable options.

Just now, AlexW said:

I agree and think that people dismiss this notion too easily (and did when I brought it up elsewhere). For the upgrade cards that every faction has access, to you start to look for the right ship to put them on, but that also involves the possibility of combining it with other upgrade cards.

For example, we haven't seen bomb heavy Imperial or Scum lists because those combine so well with Sabine and Advanced Slam. The Imperials have a couple of pilots that have nice bombing abilities, and they show up a bit here and there.

With fewer unique cards and fewer upgrade slots, it's just simple math that they don't have as many opportunities to come up with strong combinations.

This isn't to say that they can't compete or that they don't have strong cards, but to me it's very clear that they are relying on fewer options than the other two factions at this point and this could hurt their list diversity and it's no surprise that it may take longer to find viable options.

Unfortunately, to keep theme, the imperials generally go quantity over quality, hurting the chances to design imperial ships with lots of slots around existing ships from the cannon. It is star wars and thats how the imperials operate in star wars.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

As an Imperial player i am also upset that i had to buy a 100$ ship to get the 1 upgrade card i needed to be competitive only to see it nerfed to oblivion 3 months later. Now i'm left with what 300-500% dollars of weak ships? Not fun for someone whos been playing for less than a year. Not sure i want to spend that much again to have access to a good faction...

I know this doesn't help you now but, eBay. I bought my palp off eBay for $25 a year ago. I did the same for many of the other upgrade cards I needed / wanted (C-3PO etc.) But refused to buy the Raider , GR-75 Transport and Tantive IV.

EBay is a great resource to find all kinds of upgrade cards if you don't want to buy multiples of the same expansion too. You just have to be looking for good deals.

1 hour ago, Johen Dood said:

Imp player here too, and like you, I bought a Raider about 2 months ago for the cards (TIE Adv titles + ATC + Emperor). Really sad to see Imps just get F00ck'd by the FAQ and completely obliterated out of the competitive scene overnight.

Only one list, a ridiculously boring vanilla PS 7 Triple crack Defenders made any kind of showing- and that list is just so un-dynamic compared to the competitive scum and rebel lists. Imps were completely propped up by Palp and Defenders- and now that they're nerfed, Imperials just went extinct. But hey, triple Jumps is back, so....yay? Oh and we're getting a crappier version of the Y-wing in the next wave....yay?

It's funny because Imps weren't even dominating the competitive scene before the FAQ- they did OK but nothing spectacular. Now they're just....gone. Will be interesting to see how Hoth turns out this weekend.

You all keep whining about the defender nerf, and it really isn't a huge change, you still will get your free evade provided that you don't hit anything, and aren't stressed. X7 is still fantastic and viable for that ship.

6 minutes ago, rafcpl6868 said:

You all keep whining about the defender nerf, and it really isn't a huge change, you still will get your free evade provided that you don't hit anything, and aren't stressed. X7 is still fantastic and viable for that ship.

Do you play Defenders? due to low PS, they tend to get block a lot of by higher ps, especially on a chase and its a huge difference. Huge. And to top it off, ASajj and stress meta really messes with Defenders now.

I played defenders in wave4 all the way up to now, including with x7 and post nerf (my best list is still a secret defender list), but I can def say, the x7 change was damaging. (I think it would have been better if it wasn't an action, still assign if you didn't bump something. )

Can we also acknowledge that the scum nerfs were actually way more harsh than the imperial. Or that 6 months ago everyone said rebels were dead. After playing this game for four years I've learned that nothing is going to stay dominant for long. Except pre nerf Emperor who was in every big top cut for a YEAR before the nerf.

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Do you play Defenders? due to low PS, they tend to get block a lot of by higher ps, especially on a chase and its a huge difference. Huge. And to top it off, ASajj and stress meta really messes with Defenders now.

I played defenders in wave4 all the way up to now, including with x7 and post nerf (my best list is still a secret defender list), but I can def say, the x7 change was damaging. (I think it would have been better if it wasn't an action, still assign if you didn't bump something. )

Its in that spot where it should be, rewarding but can be countered.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

I look at the last 2 major competitive events:

. . .

When for 2 major events 15 squads out of 16 in the top 8 had turrets and there was only 1 Imperial squad, i think we have a pattern.

. . .

2 major events held on the same weekend shortly after a major FAQ doesn't really make much of a "pattern." You need a few more events and particularly events over a little longer period of time to really see how the new meta will emerge. Look at the major events prior to those 2 to see what the "pattern" was. There was certainly a change from pre-FAQ, but I don't think there is anywhere near enough data to suggest a specific pattern yet.