7 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

So you take a Nav first round and drop to 0? Because you can't deploy at 0. Seems inefficient in terms of commands.

Where does it say a player cannot deploy at speed 0? I haven't seen any rule that says that so if you can reference it for me that would be appreciated

Just now, DrakonLord said:

Where does it say a player cannot deploy at speed 0? I haven't seen any rule that says that so if you can reference it for me that would be appreciated

FAQ. And the RRG says a ship has to deploy at a speed on it's speed chart. Speed 0 is not listed on the speed chart.

12 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

Where does it say a player cannot deploy at speed 0? I haven't seen any rule that says that so if you can reference it for me that would be appreciated

The Zombie has the Right of it, and We're Quoting!

RRG, Page 10, "Setup"

◊ Ships must be placed within their player’s deployment zones. When a player places a ship, he must set its speed dial to a speed available on its speed chart.

FAQ, Page 4, Setup and Fleet Building:

Q: During the “Deploy Ships” step of setup, can a player set his or her ship’s speed to “0”?
A: No.

Ok, well my friend and i decided to just continue playing how we have been, since we both agreed that doesnt make sense (a ship can only move the speeds it has on its speed chart? So collisions where you move speed 0 and purposely slowing down so you are "moving" at speed 0 shouldnt be allowed? We just take it as all ships have the ability to set their speed to '0')

thanks for the heads up

RRG, Page 11, "Speed "

A ship’s speed determines how far it must move each activation; the ship’s current speed is tracked on its speed dial. A squadron’s speed value indicates the farthest distance band that the squadron can move into.

• A ship’s speed is constant until the ship resolves a 'NAV' command or uses an upgrade card effect to change speed.

• The minimum speed for all ships is 0.

• Each ship’s maximum speed is indicated on its speed chart. If a ship does not have any yaw values in a speed column, it cannot accelerate to that speed.

----

The Rules set the Minimum Speed. That is 0.

The Setup rules say you must pick a speed on the speed chart, while deploying, that's potentially 1-through-4.

The speed rules do not say you must move at a speed that is on your speed chart - only that doing so tells you how much nav you have, and what your Maximum (not minimum) is, through lack of having yaw values listed.

There is no conflict of rules here.

Speed 0 is a legitimate speed to maneuver at. You are still counted as performing a maneuver at speed 0 (and if you're overlapping an obstacle when you do it, you re-overlap that obstacle each time).

However, Speed 0 is not a speed you are allowed to deploy at.

Simple as that

(Or, rather to say, to complicate it a little - Speed 0 is not a speed you can elect to deploy at... You can totally be forced to, by use of the G-7X Grav Well Upgrade, for example)

Either way dras, did i specifically say there was a conflict of rules? NO!- implied? Yes, but stated a conflict of rules? No, they can be quite illogical sounding at times, but they make generally make this game amazing

At the same token,in casual games is anyone (apart from Dras )going to get real a*** about following every rule to the letter? Im certainly not lol

Mainly my problem comes with it feels like the situation below

Imperial fleet stationary over a planet

"Sir, the rebel fleet has arrived and is accelerating towards us"

"Good, hold position and relay to engineering to get prepared for battle"

"But sir, if we relay that to engineering, we will be accelerating towards the enemy"

"WHAT! this battle hasnt even begun, we havent moved from orbit for the past 3 days and i havent given the order to power the engines"

"I know sir, some drunk knocked the switch that gave power to the engines, its minimal and we can stop it, but we must relay that order to the engine room immediatly instead of telling the engineering teams to be ready"

"So be it"

Sight, oh well lol, i need to go back to work so i will be on again later to read whatever counter argument has been posted hahahaha

Well, to be honest, when I play even a casual game, I like that every rule are respected. Backsies are a thing I can accept, but if a rule says you cannot deploy at speed 0, I expect people to respect that rule.

19 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

RRG, Page 11, "Speed "

A ship’s speed determines how far it must move each activation; the ship’s current speed is tracked on its speed dial. A squadron’s speed value indicates the farthest distance band that the squadron can move into.

• A ship’s speed is constant until the ship resolves a 'NAV' command or uses an upgrade card effect to change speed.

• The minimum speed for all ships is 0.

• Each ship’s maximum speed is indicated on its speed chart. If a ship does not have any yaw values in a speed column, it cannot accelerate to that speed.

----

The Rules set the Minimum Speed. That is 0.

The Setup rules say you must pick a speed on the speed chart, while deploying, that's potentially 1-through-4.

The speed rules do not say you must move at a speed that is on your speed chart - only that doing so tells you how much nav you have, and what your Maximum (not minimum) is, through lack of having yaw values listed.

There is no conflict of rules here.

Speed 0 is a legitimate speed to maneuver at. You are still counted as performing a maneuver at speed 0 (and if you're overlapping an obstacle when you do it, you re-overlap that obstacle each time).

However, Speed 0 is not a speed you are allowed to deploy at.

Simple as that

(Or, rather to say, to complicate it a little - Speed 0 is not a speed you can elect to deploy at... You can totally be forced to, by use of the G-7X Grav Well Upgrade, for example)

well, I know a guy who kept playing a 3 ISD lists at tournaments with 1 ship deploying at speed 0, the other speed 1, the other speed 2.

Thx for that Dras, I won't be fooled again!

1 hour ago, DrakonLord said:

Imperial fleet stationary over a planet

Does not that fleet fall into the planet?

If the fleet is orbiting around the planet it is moving at some speed even with the engines off.

If the fleet is keeping itself "stationary" its engines are working to counter gravity.

No matter what it does, the fleet is never at speed 0.

1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Does not that fleet fall into the planet?

If the fleet is orbiting around the planet it is moving at some speed even with the engines off.

If the fleet is keeping itself "stationary" its engines are working to counter gravity.

No matter what it does, the fleet is never at speed 0.

Hahahaha alright you got me there change the planet to a space station then lol

On March 24, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Sybreed said:

where's the logic in redirect not working because you're not moving though

I think that a lot of the "thematic" idea, is that a ship that isn't moving doesn't generate enough power to use Redirects, Braces and Contains. And because it isn't moving, you can't evade. Think of a car, and a car battery. If you use the battery for radio and stuff when the car is parked, the battery will die and you won't be able to start the car.

But, mainly, that rule is there to avoid people parking a ship without penalty.

8 hours ago, DrakonLord said:

Hahahaha alright you got me there change the planet to a space station then lol

Even then...

How can the station keep its position when all the universe around is moving?

How can the fleet keep its position relative to the station when the station cannot do the same (no matter the point of reference) without moving itself?

Star Wars cannot escape from Einstein.

14 hours ago, DrakonLord said:

Ok, well my friend and i decided to just continue playing how we have been, since we both agreed that doesnt make sense (a ship can only move the speeds it has on its speed chart? So collisions where you move speed 0 and purposely slowing down so you are "moving" at speed 0 shouldnt be allowed? We just take it as all ships have the ability to set their speed to '0')

thanks for the heads up

So long as you don't show up to a tournament and try to deploy at speed 0, you should be fine.

17 hours ago, DrakonLord said:

At the same token,in casual games is anyone (apart from Dras )going to get real a*** about following every rule to the letter? Im certainly not lol

Not to jump all over you or attack you or anything, but in my experience, yes, pretty much everybody around here will follow the rules and expect their opponent to do so unless they've both agreed to a specific exception. Which, clearly you and your buddy have, so this particular thing is a non-issue for you guys in your games, which is great!

Just keep in mind that this is a house rule, so you'll want to be explicit if you intend to play this way with someone else. It's worth noting, because while it's not a big deal for everybody or in every game, the expectation that that rule will be followed can be pretty important for predicting the tempo of the game at deployment, which of course is important for predicting dials, plotting courses, that sort of thing. Example in the spoiler, if this is unclear.

Oh I don't think any of you have attacked my point of view or anything , the whole point of putting a discussion out on the Internet is to get opinions after all and I do get what you are all saying, but I cannot honestly see anything different between deploying at speed 0 or using one of the many ways to deploy at speed 1 then change to speed 0 anyways, if I'm playing against anyone who doesn't want to play with that house rule, I will just play with Garm or takin as the commander instead.

just because I disagree with a certain (in my opinion useless) rule doesn't mean I am incapable of taking two seconds to modify my fleet in order to make it 'legal' lol

for example if my opponent doesn't want me to start at speed zero for whatever reason, then I bring Garm and at the start of the first round I give the ships I want at speed zero a manoeuvre token, then when they activate (speed set to 1) I spend that token to reduce speed to 0 anyway and I still keep my command dial.

9 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Not to jump all over you or attack you or anything, but in my experience, yes, pretty much everybody around here will follow the rules and expect their opponent to do so unless they've both agreed to a specific exception. Which, clearly you and your buddy have, so this particular thing is a non-issue for you guys in your games, which is great!

Just keep in mind that this is a house rule, so you'll want to be explicit if you intend to play this way with someone else. It's worth noting, because while it's not a big deal for everybody or in every game, the expectation that that rule will be followed can be pretty important for predicting the tempo of the game at deployment, which of course is important for predicting dials, plotting courses, that sort of thing. Example in the spoiler, if this is unclear.

For example, if I'm deploying TRC90's or jumping out fast early-strike bombers in such a way as to try and get a shot in on turn 2, I know how fast I need to go and how to position to get that shot under the assumption that you have to move at least speed 1 for both turns 1 and 2 in order to avoid being a sitting duck at speed 0 for some portion of round 2. I can then plan my positioning based on that assumption, ideally in a manner not obvious to you so that I can take you by surprise. If you then deploy at speed 0, not only have you foiled my plan by not following the same rules as me, but I've also tipped my hand on my deployment strategy, meaning "just pick it all up and redeploy" isn't a great solution at that point.

On 28 March 2017 at 8:03 AM, Sybreed said:

Well, to be honest, when I play even a casual game, I like that every rule are respected. Backsies are a thing I can accept, but if a rule says you cannot deploy at speed 0, I expect people to respect that rule.

Sybreed- I get that you like every rule to be expected, but then you say you accept backsies but not deploying at speed zero when I can Garm it, or use a dial with raymus anyway to get the same effect as deploying at speed zero? For me that just slows down the game

Ardaedhel- I get what your trying to say but at the same time, I can just use one of the strategies I've said about to achieve the same effect, just wasting a bit more time

i suppose it's just the way I play (sudden and unpredictable, fast manoeuvrable ships[ Cr90, Mc30, AF, Neb-b and flotillas] ) but both me and my friend don't see the point in the rule, I suppose it is there for a reason I haven't come across yet

i also don't have any local tournaments or anything so I only play casual which probably means my mindset conflicts with all you tournament players out there....

.... Also, ovinomanc3r, just because the universe is in a state of relative motion, that means that when the word 'stationary' itself was defined as "being in a state of zero motion" it was defined relative to another object. Therefore all 'stationary' objects in this universe ARE stationary, relative to another stationary object, because the motion of the system they are in (the universe) does not effect the objects perception of what is stationary and what is not. Therefore while you could argue that stationary objects are actually not stationary relative to the universe, you can also argue that relative to another stationary object in the same system, the object itself is stationary...

.... Therefore I will argue that relative to the ration, the fleet orbiting it is stationary, even though relative to the universe, the fleet and the station are not 'stationary'. Or in other words, a fleet is floating in space with their engines off and any forces they are experiencing are equal and opposite to each other, meaning they have to motion in any frames of reference because they are not being impacted upon in any way that is not already cancelled out.

example, a ship accelerates to 5ms^-1 with a force of 5N then stops accelerating. Upon reaching this point the ship applies a force of 5N in the opposite direction of motion until it reaches a equalibrium where the motion of the system is 0. At this point the opposite force is switched off. At this point in space the ships has no motion in either direction as the forces opposing each other are equal and the ships engines are not on.

+5N = -5N where the + and the - define the direction of the force.