Don't want to derail the Open Thread, so a new topic.

At Hoth I noted a few people dropped out after it was clear they couldn't make the day 2 cut.

Is this acceptable tournament behaviour??

I think its poor form, and something I have not really seen in 23 years of wargaming tournaments. But this was my first in US, and first with X-wing... so maybe different tournament "culture" exists.

Please note I am aware there are genuine reasons why some people may need to drop out... this isn't a discussion about that :-).

It's absolutely fine for people to drop whenever they want to or need to drop. Be it because they have an emergency, they get ill, they aren't in with a shot of prizes any more, they want to do a side event instead, they want to spectate on top level matches, they have to go check into a hotel (I've done that one) or... they just don't feel like carrying on (that one too, my most common reasons for dropping in big tournaments has been that I just don't feel I'm playing at my best and am not enjoying the day any more, or that I've lost the ability to equal or better my previous best record, or both).

What's not fine, however, is dropping without the TOs being able to record it and adjust the next round pairings accordingly.

If the tournament doesn't offer a means to record drops properly, that's really bad.

If you don't want to participate for whatever reason, it's appropriate to drop from a tournament.

I get what you are saying and in other game systems, some of my best games have been once I know I'm not going to place anywhere in the event. The atmosphere becomes more relaxed and it's more about having fun with new people. I think people should stay if they are only quitting because they aren't going to win, but I know everyone is different.

I would never drop unless it was an issue of time. I think it's poor sportsmanship to quit when prizes are gone.

As much as I hate to lose, I enjoy the games more when I can't win anything - no pressure and some jankier lists down the bottom end.

It's fairly common in X-Wing, and I never really understood it anyway. I actually enjoyed those last few meaningless games even more when I went to the tournament with a highly competitive mindset and failed, they helped me chill out.

I kinda wish all tournament rewards were either randomized or given to every participant.

How much difference is there between dropping out on an event and simply conceding all of your remaining games? One removes you from the rotation while the other gives someone free and easy wins.

Perhaps dropping needs to be treated like a Draw.

Hoth is also at a convention. There is lots to do beside the x-wing tournament.

3 minutes ago, NervousSam said:

Hoth is also at a convention. There is lots to do beside the x-wing tournament.

Yeah, that's the other reason I meant to add to my list of reasons for dropping - doing stuff at the con. I'm almost certainly dropping at least one day of Europeans to actually go walk in my cosplay, given how much time I'm spending on it. The only reason I might not is if by some miracle I actually make the cut but lol

It really bothers me when they do 3 day tournaments where all the participants are potentially expected to be there on all 3 days.

If you concede all your games then you are stopping another player playing as well, when they might want to. This happens sometimes with a drop if it takes the tournament from even to odd numbers of players, but it's not a big issue in a large tournament. If you drop, your place in the rankings will be frozen, while other players can play games to increase their place. Generally dropping after informing the TO is absolutely fine, whatever the reason, unless it's a really small tournament and you're leaving someone without a game.

I mean, strictly speaking 50% of drops will leave someone without a game since there have to be an even number of players for someone not to get a bye.

My worst showing was at a Regionals in Toronto a year or two ago. I managed to go completely braindead and managed an 0-5 with 1 Bye. I played up until the end of the tournament. I met loads of fun people (well other than one WAAC player with a Scum HWK/Y-Wing TLT list and he wasn't even remotely fun to play against) and overall had a great day of playing. Even if I lost, badly.

But to the other point of side events? Sure... if you're getting beaten down and aren't having a good time, cut and run. Just make sure you tell the TO/schedule folks before the end of the round so as to not screw up the next round pairings.

1 hour ago, Dave Grant said:

Don't want to derail the Open Thread, so a new topic.

At Hoth I noted a few people dropped out after it was clear they couldn't make the day 2 cut.

Is this acceptable tournament behaviour??

I think its poor form, and something I have not really seen in 23 years of wargaming tournaments. But this was my first in US, and first with X-wing... so maybe different tournament "culture" exists.

Hoth is at Adepticon right? It seems perfectly reasonable to me that if you knew you had no shot left at advancing you might want to drop so you could get on with the rest of the con. I certainly would have done the same at GenCon if I didn't feel I had a shot. I ended up a ship's worth of MoV short of day 2 for X-wing (if only they'd done GenCon like worlds and everyone at 4-2 advanced...) and a single win short of Day 2 for Netrunner, so it made sense for me to stick it out in both, but given how little time I ended up getting to spend with the rest of the con if I'd known ahead of time I'd probably have dropped earlier in Netrunner.

Outside of the kind of tournament held at a con, if it's local I'll stick around, but I've definitely dropped early from things like Store Champs before if I had to drive a significant distance to get there. If I'm not making the cut and I've got a couple hours of driving ahead of me, I'll probably try to head out early.

1 hour ago, The Penguin UK said:

I would never drop unless it was an issue of time. I think it's poor sportsmanship to quit when prizes are gone.

As much as I hate to lose, I enjoy the games more when I can't win anything - no pressure and some jankier lists down the bottom end.

1 hour ago, Elavion said:

It's fairly common in X-Wing, and I never really understood it anyway. I actually enjoyed those last few meaningless games even more when I went to the tournament with a highly competitive mindset and failed, they helped me chill out.

IMHO, it seems to be poor form. If you are so "professional" you can only play for prizes, then you should be professional enough to see it thru. Professional athletes can't hang it up just because the outcome is inevitable.

23 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

IMHO, it seems to be poor form. If you are so "professional" you can only play for prizes, then you should be professional enough to see it thru. Professional athletes can't hang it up just because the outcome is inevitable.

They're getting paid to play. No one is paying me to stick around in a losing tournament, so again if I have a compelling reason to drop (long drive home, at a con where there's tons of other stuff to do) I'll go ahead and do it.

16 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

IMHO, it seems to be poor form. If you are so "professional" you can only play for prizes, then you should be professional enough to see it thru. Professional athletes can't hang it up just because the outcome is inevitable.

While I can certainly see your point, I would argue that forcing someone to play through rounds of a tournament that they really don't want to may put them in a bad mood, which could put a damper on their subsequent opponents.

I had this experience at Yavin 2016, my 4th round opponent (after going 0-3) barely engaged with me, even going so far as to completely blank me after the game had finished. This upset me, maybe more than it should have, but I couldn't help but feel that if you're going to play with such a negative attitude, why should you be playing at all?

I don't understand people saying it's poor sportsmanship to drop. That seems impossible unless you pitch a huge fit when dropping or if you don't properly do it so pairings are adjusted right. I don't get how someone ceasing to play after they no longer want to can be construed as anything other than the correct decision. Poor sportsmanship is taking a good match away from someone else via concession or sh*tty attitude.

The point of a tournament is to win prizes, otherwise it's just a big social night. If you can no longer win prizes there is no other purpose for you to be there other than a big social night. If someone dropped out of a big social night that wouldn't be frowned upon so why for those who can't win anymore?

I prefer to play all my games, even if I'm at the very bottom of the list. (And I've been there.) I go to a tournament to play X-Wing, and I like to get all my games in. I do like the social aspect, I like to practice against all kinds of lists and players, and there's plenty of variance in the game, so that even if the odds are slim, I feel that there's no way to call a game early. I've had too many games swing back from defeat to victory (and vice versa.)

Having said all that, if someone wants to drop because they didn't place well, that's their choice. Especially when there are side events they might want to participate in.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

I mean, strictly speaking 50% of drops will leave someone without a game since there have to be an even number of players for someone not to get a bye.

50% of drops don't actually ever mathematically equate to a person losing a chance to play a game -- at least that I can figure I think you mean that if things start out even and there is an odd number of drops it causes a person to lose a game each round.

I mean that a priori an individual person dropping has a 50:50 chance of causing someone to skip a game. If his drop makes the numbers odd, there's a bye, if this drop makes the numbers even, there's not.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

IMHO, it seems to be poor form. If you are so "professional" you can only play for prizes, then you should be professional enough to see it thru. Professional athletes can't hang it up just because the outcome is inevitable.

This is a game people play for fun. If you are not having fun and there is something else you'd rather be doing, why should you be expected to gut out another 3 hours because there's still two rounds left?

16 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I mean that a priori an individual person dropping has a 50:50 chance of causing someone to skip a game. If his drop makes the numbers odd, there's a bye, if this drop makes the numbers even, there's not.

And on the other hand, if the event started with an odd number of players, then dropping can allow the TO to avoid forcing someone else to take a bye who otherwise wanted to play.

Yes, that's what I said

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I mean that a priori an individual person dropping has a 50:50 chance of causing someone to skip a game. If his drop makes the numbers odd, there's a bye, if this drop makes the numbers even, there's not.

I'm being pedantic but if the numbers start out odd, someone dropping can actually cause a player to gain a game.

2 hours ago, Dave Grant said:

I think its poor form, and something I have not really seen in 23 years of wargaming tournaments. But this was my first in US, and first with X-wing... so maybe different tournament "culture" exists.

Well, that "culture" also exists and is fairly common from what I understand in competitive card games, and there is some crossover -- in terms of gaming subgroup -- in X-Wing.

I really don't understand why it's poor form when it really affects no one else (again provided they inform the TO). Heck, it can be a benefit to other players if the dropped player is in a foul mood and would be a poor opponent. I don't regularly drop when I'm losing and have only done so once, but that was because it was a ridiculously long day (8 games), I wasn't having fun and I knew it would be easier on family to get home 3.5 hours earlier.

I do think it was a bigger deal with SoS was a thing.

I usually play through because I prefer playing X-wing to not playing it. I dropped at Endor because I was planning on meeting up with friends after and, due to my record, had no compelling reason to continue.

Is this on the list of acceptable reasons, or am I now a poor sport?

The point I'm making is it's easy to assume that unless someone is dropping due to emergency that they're dropping because they're sore losers. But you don't really know the reasons so why make assumptions?

Worry about your next game and give no thought to why someone else chose not to have a next game. You'll probably perform better that way.