10 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Liberties can't kill ISD's? Can ISDs not kill other ISDs? (They both roll 8 dice out the front)

Only with an upgrade to the Liberty to bring them to parity. An upgrade that the ISD is also eligible for, so... kind of disingenuous to compare them with one upgraded and one not.

Also, the Liberty has less hull (very substantially less with Motti), and fewer total shields both in front three redirectable arcs and all-around.

Really the only two advantages it has over the ISD in terms of a knock-down drag-out fight are its two braces and its points efficiency.

9 hours ago, D503 said:

I will be using the liberty as Leia's flagship when her command card releases. Being able to put a wing commander/flight controllers on it and then get the double bonus from Leia's token has good synergy. An instant, boosted 4-squadron command on demand from a battleship is going to be gravy.

Love this idea. Maybe add Toryn to create a fighter escort of death (4 Xwings with 20 blues and a re-roll each... rapidly warming up to Leia)

When I first played the Liberty I was super excited to get a "Rebel ISD." Then I quickly realized that is a BAD idea. The ISD is a battleship, and the Rebels really have no comparable ship that can do quite what an ISD can do.

Someone on the forums had a very good point, and I followed their advice. The Liberty type is a Battlecruiser (heck, one variant is even called that!). In wet navy (and some of the better military sci fi) terms, a battlecruiser is designed to outrun anything it can't outfight. With engine techs/Madine it can do just that. Have it hunt and kill the smaller ships, and take out the ISD with other threats. You also need some other threats to make the ISD think twice about chasing the Liberty. People usually recommend Admonition or Yavaris/Salvation as a way to protect the flanks and provide a secondary threat.

28 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Only with an upgrade to the Liberty to bring them to parity. An upgrade that the ISD is also eligible for, so... kind of disingenuous to compare them with one upgraded and one not.

Also, the Liberty has less hull (very substantially less with Motti), and fewer total shields both in front three redirectable arcs and all-around.

Really the only two advantages it has over the ISD in terms of a knock-down drag-out fight are its two braces and its points efficiency.

i disagree on that notion. yes, the ISD is the better ship barring points efficiency, but to say a liberty with x17s, spinal armament (or xx-9 with dodonna!),intel officer, leading shots cannot kill an ISD sounds crazy to me. it cannot "outfight", sure. best used in other roles, sure. but ISDs are not invulnerable. a liberty "can totaly kill one" if it dodges some arcs to avoid being destroyed first.

(i dont use such an expensive upgrade lineup unless CC, but you get the idea)

17 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Only with an upgrade to the Liberty to bring them to parity. An upgrade that the ISD is also eligible for, so... kind of disingenuous to compare them with one upgraded and one not.

Also, the Liberty has less hull (very substantially less with Motti), and fewer total shields both in front three redirectable arcs and all-around.

Really the only two advantages it has over the ISD in terms of a knock-down drag-out fight are its two braces and its points efficiency.

I was more or less commenting on the point that there's seems to be a perception that the Liberty just can't kill an ISD. That should be pretty patently false considering it can have just as much firepower as an ISD (MC80SC with spinal is 5 points cheaper than a ISD1 and 15 than ISD2). With upgrades done evenly, after SA, between the Liberty and ISD the difference actually diminish more considering upgrades like XI7 almost completely negate negatives like the lack of redirects. The two braces, points efficiency, and arguable more maneuverability w/Madine (Since the ISD gets Motti) should make it a very competitive choice in that match up.

The real problem I see with the Liberty is that it is a pure finesse piece, which is really weird for a large ship. I've only ever got it to work with Madine because it lives and dies by the arcs. One wrong move and you could be dead. Lando though helps in this regards as an almost get out of jail free card.

As for positioning, I've found it's more effective to bring the Liberty at side of a an ISD, letting it cross your T. Madine really helps make this happen. After the initial shots you actually want to start traveling in the same direction and use the extra clicks to slide slip and keep that beefy front on target.

2 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

As for positioning, I've found it's more effective to bring the Liberty at side of a an ISD, letting it cross your T. Madine really helps make this happen. After the initial shots you actually want to start traveling in the same direction and use the extra clicks to slide slip and keep that beefy front on target.

detail: "letting it cross your T" is the opposite; it was used by old navies that were all about the broadsides, saying "let them cross our T" as in "trap them, their front vs our boradsides". what you mean is "flank the ISD".

i still dont agree with that, you should target your opponent's weak spots of the fleet, not the 11/14 hull ship unless you see some chance, but i se what you mean.

Just now, Kikaze said:

detail: "letting it cross your T" is the opposite; it was used by old navies that were all about the broadsides, saying "let them cross our T" as in "trap them, their front vs our boradsides".

Mostly used for visualization purposes in the text context.

13 minutes ago, Kikaze said:

i disagree on that notion. yes, the ISD is the better ship barring points efficiency, but to say a liberty with x17s, spinal armament (or xx-9 with dodonna!),intel officer, leading shots cannot kill an ISD sounds crazy to me. it cannot "outfight", sure. best used in other roles, sure. but ISDs are not invulnerable. a liberty "can totaly kill one" if it dodges some arcs to avoid being destroyed first.

I'm pretty sure you're disagreeing with somebody else, because all I did was point out that they don't both throw 8 dice out the front sans upgrades, and then compare the disparities between the two...

2 hours ago, moodswing5537 said:

Fly it like a big Neb B and see what happens. Nose first, like a lawn dart*

*(for you younger tikes out there, a lawn dart is a fun game we had in the late 70's early 80's that were essentially long steel spikes with feathers on one end we could throw at hoola hoops** in the yard, but usually broke down into throwing them at the neighbor's dogs.)

**(Hoola Hoops - Google it. I'm not explaining this one....)

Come clean. Tell 'em how all many games it took with the Liberty Class before you even got a front arc shot off...

I don't get the hate for MC80 Liberties. They're great ships, but they're not ISDs. Don't get caught doing ISD things. I agree that it relies on finesse a lot more than an ISD. Position with it is key, Madine helps a lot with that. It's pretty brutal as far as damage goes, but it's squishier than people expect. You can run it pretty lean though, Leading Shots, Gunnery Teams and Mon Karren is enough to make it sing. I admit I haven't looked at statistics, but at the regional I attended I took 2nd with it and my final table was against double liberties...

It's also very good in CC, as you can mitigate a lot of the squishiness if you're a veteran. Get in, pop 2 rounds of repair with dial + veteran token, put some Major Derlin love and it suddenly doesn't even take hull damage anymore. No, seriously, having 2 braces can be amazing.

4 hours ago, chr335 said:

No liberties are liberties 80s are homeones since that is what we got first.

I.........I..........I...........

1 hour ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Liberties can't kill ISD's? Can ISDs not kill other ISDs? (They both roll 8 dice out the front)

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat is happening in this thread?

21 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Come clean. Tell 'em how all many games it took with the Liberty Class before you even got a front arc shot off...

6. It was 6 games....I don't play Neb B's either though, in my defense....

1 minute ago, moodswing5537 said:

6. It was 6 games....I don't play Neb B's either though, in my defense....

Do you play ISDs? Cuz they are Rebel ISDs.

Why is no one talking about the best Rebel officer for the Liberty?

Major Derlin combines exceptionally well with the double braces in much the same way Brace squadrons work well with Gallant Haven. Slap him onboard and the survivability of your 100+ point ship is greatly increased.

29 minutes ago, Tirion said:

I.........I..........I...........

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat is happening in this thread?

Ben happened.

12 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:

Why is no one talking about the best Rebel officer for the Liberty?

Major Derlin combines exceptionally well with the double braces in much the same way Brace squadrons work well with Gallant Haven. Slap him onboard and the survivability of your 100+ point ship is greatly increased.

Although Major Derlin is a good defensive upgrade, I feel Raymus gives the Liberty more utility for the same price:

1. Nav command: Use the dial for speed changes and extra yaw. Still get a nav token.

2. CF command: Use dial+token to increase damage potential on those 5 red dice you are throwing out the front(BC+SA). 6 red dice+token+H9=Dead flotillas.

3. Engineering command: Use dial+token for 6 engineering pts. per turn. It WILL keep this ship alive!

4. Squad command: If you use the Liberty title, dial+token lets you activate 4 squads.

In addition to items 2-4 the nav token you saved from the first turn allows you to perform a speed change/extra yaw and also allows you to use ET if you have it on the ship (and you should!).

I also put a comms net flotilla behind it to feed it tokens, but many times the Liberty doesn't need additional tokens due to the tokens being used immediately when the dial is revealed.

1 hour ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Ben happened.

I am actually surprised that Ben hasn't jumped into this discussion. He has definitely influenced me on how I have equipped my Liberty and the support ships around it. If you want more in depth thoughts on how to build a Liberty list and how to fly it, he has a few AAR's out there that can help you.

57 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Do you play ISDs? Cuz they are Rebel ISDs.

No, I have been in rebel camp for a while. Every time I try to play empire, CNinja tells me I suck at it and need to go back to rebel. He's a disabler....

1 hour ago, itzSteve said:

I am actually surprised that Ben hasn't jumped into this discussion. He has definitely influenced me on how I have equipped my Liberty and the support ships around it. If you want more in depth thoughts oh how to build a Liberty list and how to fly it, he has a few AAR's out there that can help you.

Who is this "Ben" and where can I find his AAR's?

4 minutes ago, RStan said:

Who is this "Ben" and where can I find his AAR's?

He's the guy that broke Armada. He is a filthy cheater who gets away with it every time; knows what you hate to play against and brings it even if it's not good; he sees you when you're sleeping; he knows when you're awake; and he will leave spiders in your shoes at night.

3 minutes ago, RStan said:

Who is this "Ben" and where can I find his AAR's?

These threads should provide some great insight on the Liberty...

3 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:

Why is no one talking about the best Rebel officer for the Liberty?

Major Derlin combines exceptionally well with the double braces in much the same way Brace squadrons work well with Gallant Haven. Slap him onboard and the survivability of your 100+ point ship is greatly increased.

Cliff...I mean Major Clavin...I mean Derlin just talks too much. Always insisting he knows EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING...

4 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Come clean. Tell 'em how all many games it took with the Liberty Class before you even got a front arc shot off...

So how are those broadside Arqs coming along........?

Well you started it..

29 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

So how are those broadside Arqs coming along........?

Well you started it..

Really well......?

38 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

So how are those broadside Arqs coming along........?

Well you started it..

Ran em again last night. The Empire forgot to put the guns on the front. WTFaq.