I just have to take issue the the op assertion that a MC80L is a bad ship because it can't go toe to toe with an ISD. An ISD II is 120 points. A MC80 battle cruiser is 103 points. I just don't get why something's ability to destroy (arguably the most difficult ship to kill in the game) an ISD is it measuring stick for the quality of a ship.

That being said, as an Imperial player ISD's can feel very fragile against an MC80 with a couple of good support support ships.

I'll have to try a Liberty with Major Derlin and something else to ensure its survivability....

20 minutes ago, Hrathen said:

I just have to take issue the the op assertion that a MC80L is a bad ship because it can't go toe to toe with an ISD. An ISD II is 120 points. A MC80 battle cruiser is 103 points. I just don't get why something's ability to destroy (arguably the most difficult ship to kill in the game) an ISD is it measuring stick for the quality of a ship.

That being said, as an Imperial player ISD's can feel very fragile against an MC80 with a couple of good support support ships.

This. I've destroyed several ISDs with Mon Karren and Friends, the trick being using the friends to bleed the ISD before MK goes to work. I've yet to try being on the Imperial side of the equation but the Liberty definitely isn't trash, and eggshell armed with hammers understates the durability of the supposed egg.

I honestly think the cheaper version is frequently the better version- blue dice are just so **** reliable, and with SW7s its just guaranteed damage. Who doesnt love that?

Mon Karen pretty much removes the need to accuracy away tokens most of the time, though if you get a great roll and need to stop the Brace *and they dont have ECMs anyways* you more than likely still have the option.

So what are you really losing out on? A single read die from most likely one salvo a game and a black die vs fighters? Which since rebel fighter screens are generally better, I dont think should really be a problem here.

Switching that out gives you the gunnery team for free. Or pays for Antilles. Or Mon Karen.

You build the two very differently too. Spinal and leading shots is a no brainer on the battlecruiser, but SW7s and engine techs work out great one the star cruiser.

7 hours ago, Sybreed said:

I'll have to try a Liberty with Major Derlin and something else to ensure its survivability....

Try Engineering Captain. I basically only do nav/CF dials and then use this when i need an eng command.

22 minutes ago, idiewell said:

Try Engineering Captain. I basically only do nav/CF dials and then use this when i need an eng command.

Major Derlin I believe to be better, because he takes effect after the brace, but Engineering Captain to simplify command stacks is a great trick on most larger ships. I've used it to decent effect on ISDs before, and I imagine the principle applies here.

My experience with the MC80 Star Cruiser has been very good, though I have never tried to take down an ISD with it alone. The ship favors a very aggressive strategy, and the wide front arc and powerful shields do much to shelter smaller ships on its flanks. These in turn guard the MC80 SC's weaker spots. As long as I hold formation and I've chosen my ships well, I can be fairly confident in success. In fact, last time I did it, I forced a complete surrender midway through the third round.

On 3/24/2017 at 10:36 AM, itzSteve said:

I am actually surprised that Ben hasn't jumped into this discussion. He has definitely influenced me on how I have equipped my Liberty and the support ships around it. If you want more in depth thoughts on how to build a Liberty list and how to fly it, he has a few AAR's out there that can help you.

Thanks for the shout-out. I've had an extraordinarily busy week, and I've only tonight flipped through about 5 days worth of posts. I think most of what I have to say is covered in other places, and pretty much my two most common load-outs are covered in this thread. I'll see if there's anything more I can add.

Further thoughts based on games I've played in the last couple of months:

1. As with any ship or list, the real question is how it fits in with the rest of the fleet that you're running. It is hard to talk about any unit accurately in a vaccuum. So the whole ISD comparison earlier in the thread feels like an awkward detour. For the most part, I use an MC30 as the main opener on any large ship. It has to land a double-arc or a couple of solid shots, and the key principle is to get out. Then the Liberty can be an effective finisher.

2. Squadron are a problem, as they are elsewhere. After a couple of spankings by Parkdaddy last week, I'm really convinced the list needs something else to handle that archetype. When I built my initial list, the idea was to spread out in a way that squadrons just can't zoom across the map. You feed the enemy one ship, but otherwise get everything out and then just aim to destroy more (often much more) than what you started with. AFFM in Wave 5 plus the effects of Norra really change how threatening the squadron game is. In response, I also looked at Aresius' results in the World Cup, where an absolutely huge number of defensive squadrons aimed to just flat out win the squadron game.

3. Star versus Battle. I keep going back and forth on these. Put a Battle cruiser and spinal on the table, and with gunnery team, you really cannot understate how powerful this extra flexbility is. A few more dice over the course of the game versus an SW-7 really does add up. The key difference is that the load-outs are about 20 points or so apart. One isn't necessarily better, only different. The more points you put on the BC, the more you need to be able to table and avoid any other losses in order to win by a comfortable margin. And this is after months of playing both in multiple tournaments and casual games against a variety of skilled competition.

4. The meta has really involved where you need some kind of bid, but the open question is exactly how much. For example, in my regional game against Ard, I really needed the bid to avoid a last/first situation. On the other hand, I don't think most Liberty lists really utterly need to go first, so I'm generally leaning against the mid 380 bids that I used to do in Nov-Dec of last year.