All things being equal, what list design would stand a decent chance against the Rieekan CR90 swarm of ramming zombies aka the "******* List"?

Besides another MSU Corvette swarm.

Here's what I'm facing:

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 392/400

Commander: General Rieekan

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Navigational Hazards

6x CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- General Rieekan ( 30 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)

Here is my initial thought...
MSU Killa?

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 392/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
= 97 total ship cost

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
= 97 total ship cost

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
= 97 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Repair Crews ( 4 points)
= 28 total ship cost

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Major Derlin ( 7 points)

- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 73 total ship cost

Rogues.

Madine with a Home One-backed XI7/QTT Liberty to pop them at long range.

Outbid him with an LS/GT/XI7 ISD2 or Liberty.

Rogues.

Rieekan APT/H9 MC30 one-shot machines.

A big pile of fast rogues.

Honestly? The only winning move is not to play... this is the sort of fleet that only Ben brings to a friendly game to suck the fun out of everyone's evening.

This cheesy-cheese stuff is so cheesy, it's no fun at all.

Hmm.... cheese! Great, now I want nachos...

Some builds of regular squadrons can probably handle it, but it will definitely require some practice to learn how to play the avoidance/trading game long enough to whittle him down. You fscking run with your carriers, drawing out the fight long enough to burn down corvettes.

Not tested against this actual build, but it's how to beat my Rieekan SW90B swarm (which also used rams), so no reason it shouldn't work.

You need to bleed them at extreme range from your own ships. They're CR90s so they can leap on you in a flash. I'd mimic @Ardaedhel and say any Christmas-treed Large should handle them well, and add that if you're willing to consider Imperial options, Rhymer extends your threat range massively, and Jonus would help locking down those pesky redirect tokens. With the list you have there, I'd drop the Phylons across the board, simply because they will probably be running continuous Navigate commands to ensure good runs and proc Engine Techs, and they will just speed back up. Try to work in some bombers to handle them up close, B-wings if you are confident you can make them come up short, Ys, Xs, or Es if not. YT-2400s do good work, and would be divorced of command requirements, but are expensive. Definitely run like hell, and try to force him to only come at you a couple ships at a time. If you can cause pileups and start causing rams across the fleet, it will potentially lower the amount of damage you have to squeak out of your dice as well.

A non-squadron option, possibly

MSU Hunter v1

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Custom Objective
Defense Objective: Custom Objective
Navigation Objective: Custom Objective

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Home One ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 161 total ship cost

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 132 total ship cost

4 Lancer-class Pursuit Crafts ( 60 points)
1 Dash Rendar ( 24 points)
1 Ketsu Onyo ( 22 points)

Something like that. I've been greeblehauled using both MC30 and CR90 swarms by a very similar build, only with GR75's for activations instead of rogues, but the rogues will probably do you some good early on. The challenge will be positioning that Star Cruiser to threaten pretty much the whole field, because being so out-activated, by ET CR90's, you'll have no idea where he's going. You'll also almost definitely lose the Liberty, but it may be able to take enough with it to win it for Home One.

2 minutes ago, RogueCommander said:

A non-squadron option, possibly

MSU Hunter v1

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Custom Objective
Defense Objective: Custom Objective
Navigation Objective: Custom Objective

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Home One ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 161 total ship cost

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 132 total ship cost

4 Lancer-class Pursuit Crafts ( 60 points)
1 Dash Rendar ( 24 points)
1 Ketsu Onyo ( 22 points)

I always forget about Lancers. They're a good option here, since they won't see a lot of return fire, and they have Bomber, unlike 2400s. However, I would caution you against being too confident with this fleet. You can only kill a maximum of four per round, and that has enough ifs attached to it I wouldn't bet on more than two. Practice flying and obstacle placement to screw up the approach runs. RBD on the MC80 may be overkill, but it's certainly not unwarranted, and I don't see a much better five points anywhere. Leading Shots is probably better than SW-7s here to get mileage out of red dice, which could add XI7s to Home One, but that's personal taste.

Yeah, I agree on Leading Shots.

Heh.

Madine: MSU Hunter

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 395/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Custom Objective
Defense Objective: Custom Objective
Navigation Objective: Custom Objective

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Home One ( 7 points)
= 143 total ship cost

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 131 total ship cost

1 Lancer-class Pursuit Craft ( 15 points)
1 Ketsu Onyo ( 22 points)
1 Dash Rendar ( 24 points)
1 Hera Syndulla ( 28 points)
2 Scurrg H-6 Bombers ( 32 points)

Card view link

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Any upgrade that damages shield is pointless here.

Kill them with bombers or ships. Not half of each.

10 hours ago, RocketPropelledGiraffe said:

Honestly? The only winning move is not to play... this is the sort of fleet that only Ben brings to a friendly game to suck the fun out of everyone's evening.

This cheesy-cheese stuff is so cheesy, it's no fun at all.

Hmm.... cheese! Great, now I want nachos...

I knew a post like this would come up.

You could almost say, I'd Ben waiting.

7 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Any upgrade that damages shield is pointless here.

At first I was going to disagree with you, but then I realized you're taking about upgrades on the corvettes, right? Specifically, how the SW-7's are a waste of points here.

I agree, in that case. I think either SW-7 or ET/RBD, but make one choice and stick with it across the whole fleet. Both just overloads them with points without creating new synergy.

7 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Kill them with bombers or ships. Not half of each.

Generally speaking, I agree, but I think this is more generalized list-building philosophy than specific to this scenario.

That said, if I were no kidding building a skew to try and hard counter this list in particular, I'd probably do something like this:

Fleet 20 (397/400)
=================
MC80 Command Cruiser (106 + 37)
+ General Madine (30)
+ Home One (7)
MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 + 24)
+ Skilled First Officer (1)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
+ Quad Turbolaser Cannons (10)
MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 + 24)
+ Skilled First Officer (1)
+ Gunnery Team (7)
+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)
+ Quad Turbolaser Cannons (10)
Opening Salvo
Contested Outpost
Solar Corona

You're going second, so own it.

Opening Salvo means you have a fair chance to one-shot one each at long range with the Liberties (two accs + XI7, three reds, and three blacks after CF). Taking down just two early will pay dividends later.

Contested Output is free points to push the balance a little toward your favor. If you win, you're definitely losing at least one Liberty, maybe both, so you gotta make those points back somewhere.

Solar Corona is a super trap. If he takes this, you've won, because you can deploy on a flank and force him to either delay engagement or engage piecemeal. If you're only facing 2 or 3 corvettes in a round, you can overpower them piecemeal; if he delays engagement, you can press the attack while he's on his heels.

Does the counter have to be Rebel?

34 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Does the counter have to be Rebel?

Yeah, I'm Rebel only. But, my buddy would probably let me use his Imperial stuff, if you think they're better equipped.

Having said that, I have zero experience with Imperials, so I wouldn't personally be up to snuff for him to test against.

@Ardaedhel, so you suggest the 2nd Lib due to needing more hull than the 2 ship version with all those Rogues? The ide of free roaming blues and blacks focusing down a little CR90 sounds tempting.

i do like the objective choice you suggested. Gracias.

1 minute ago, RogueCommander said:

@Ardaedhel, so you suggest the 2nd Lib due to needing more hull than the 2 ship version with all those Rogues? The ide of free roaming blues and blacks focusing down a little CR90 sounds tempting.

i do like the objective choice you suggested. Gracias.

Eh... more that I have an irrational vendetta against rogues so I'd go for the ship option instead. I think if you're trying for the rogue approach, you want a little more evasive fleet... But then you're looking at a corvette swarm or something, which doesn't do a lot to advance the conversation, lol.

I think your approach is just fine, I just personally prefer to lean hard into one tactic in my fleet building.

1 hour ago, RogueCommander said:

I knew a post like this would come up.

You could almost say, I'd Ben waiting.

Point taken, wouldn't want to be that guy.

I think you need a big ship that is the most juicy target, but can weather the storm somewhat. You know where they are going to be, so bring along a couple of slicer tool-tractor beam flotilla to strip Nav commands and tokens off the most threatening corvette to deny them engine techs.

You will not win this by one-shotting 6 corvettes before they do damage. Slow some down with the flotillas to delay the hits, and paint a target icon on an Interdictor with lots of engineering help. Some squads to deal damage after the hit?

Not sure if that will work at all, just thinking...

Here's a list designed to deny the double-ram long enough to kill the ships. They will still most likely get single rams.

Interdictor for G-8 stoppage of ET move. And MS-1 Ions to tap the ET cards as they come into range.

Author: Democratus

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Close-Range Intel Scan
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Screed ( 26 points)
- Interdictor ( 3 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Engineering Team ( 5 points)
- MS-1 Ion Cannons ( 2 points)
- G-8 Experiemental Projector ( 8 points)
= 141 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Warlord ( 8 points)
- Sensor Team ( 5 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- MS-1 Ion Cannons ( 2 points)
= 110 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Veteran Gunners ( 5 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
- MS-1 Ion Cannons ( 2 points)
= 98 total ship cost

1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)

21 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGiraffe said:

Point taken, wouldn't want to be that guy.

I think you need a big ship that is the most juicy target, but can weather the storm somewhat. You know where they are going to be, so bring along a couple of slicer tool-tractor beam flotilla to strip Nav commands and tokens off the most threatening corvette to deny them engine techs.

You will not win this by one-shotting 6 corvettes before they do damage. Slow some down with the flotillas to delay the hits, and paint a target icon on an Interdictor with lots of engineering help. Some squads to deal damage after the hit?

Not sure if that will work at all, just thinking...

All I would expect this to accomplish is take away firepower from the heavy hitters and add more things for the CR90s to kill. Denying Engine Techs is only denying one ram, and maybe one damage card for the RBD to take away. An Interdictor will also have trouble pulling away enough attention to it to justify its inclusion; it's not the most lethal combatant for its cost, and anything more lethal will draw that attention. I'd stick with either a super-skewed fleet combat list like @Ardaedhel's or I'd take one like the V2 or V3 with Home One, a Liberty, and a swarm of (possibly Rogue) bombers.

18 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

All I would expect this to accomplish is take away firepower from the heavy hitters and add more things for the CR90s to kill. Denying Engine Techs is only denying one ram, and maybe one damage card for the RBD to take away. An Interdictor will also have trouble pulling away enough attention to it to justify its inclusion; it's not the most lethal combatant for its cost, and anything more lethal will draw that attention. I'd stick with either a super-skewed fleet combat list like @Ardaedhel's or I'd take one like the V2 or V3 with Home One, a Liberty, and a swarm of (possibly Rogue) bombers.

Well, I understand the fleet must only work against the corvettes in the first post? Consider this:

Interdictor Combat, Motti, Wulff, G8 Projector, Phylon Tractor Beams, MS1 Ion cannons, Engineering Team, Interdictor

3 Gozanti with Phylon and Slicer Tools

Rhymes and 13 Bombers

This comes to 389 points and the only interesting target is the Interdictor, which can repair 3 hull each turn. All you would do is delay some of the corvettes with the Gozantis to ensure they cannot hit you all at once to give some time to repair. Then kill everything with bombers.

7 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGiraffe said:

Rhymer and 13 Bombers

Lol, you're not wrong...

Stop the swarm

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 392/400

Commander: Admiral Konstantine

Assault Objective: Targeting Beacons
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Admiral Titus ( 2 points )
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
= 88 total ship cost

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
= 86 total ship cost

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
= 86 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Konstantine ( 23 points)
- Interdictor ( 3 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
- G-8 Experiemental Projector ( 8 points)
= 132 total ship cost

My Imperial solution.

Been wanting to run an ISD like this for a while:

[ EMPIRE FLEET (400 points)
1 • Imperial I-class Star Destroyer - Admiral Motti - Minister Tua - Gunnery Team - Expanded Hangar Bay - Rapid Launch Bays - Reinforced Blast Doors (159)
2 • VT-49 Decimator (22)
3 • VT-49 Decimator (22)
4 • VT-49 Decimator (22)
5 • VT-49 Decimator (22)
6 • VT-49 Decimator (22)
7 • Raider I-class corvette - Ordnance Experts - Assault Proton Torpedoes (53)
8 • Raider I-class corvette - Ordnance Experts - Assault Proton Torpedoes (53)
9 • Gozanti-class Cruisers - Comms Net (25)

No way for those CR90s to eat through the Decimators, and the firepower is enough to wreck them as they close in on the ISD.

If they dont close in on the ISD I only have to kill 3 Corvettes to win.

If they do, they have to kill it to win. RBDs give me two turns with them in my sights. I should be able to get a bit of fire on them before they close in. They cant half ass coming in on the ISD either.

And with OE and APTs the raiders can finish off CR90s with even side arc shots if I maneuver right.


****
Or you could try to outdo them at their own game somewhat...

[ EMPIRE FLEET (390 points)
1 • Raider I-class corvette - Ordnance Experts - Assault Concussion Missiles (55)
2 • Raider I-class corvette - Ordnance Experts - Assault Concussion Missiles (55)
3 • Raider I-class corvette - Ordnance Experts - Assault Concussion Missiles (55)
4 • Raider I-class corvette - Ordnance Experts - Assault Concussion Missiles (55)
5 • Raider I-class corvette - Ordnance Experts - Assault Concussion Missiles (55)
6 • Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer - Admiral Motti - Minister Tua - Ordnance Experts - Medical Team - Reinforced Blast Doors - Expanded Launchers - Demolisher (115)

Objectives - Blockade Run - Planetary Ion Cannon - Solar Corona (0)

Alternatively the always popular APTs on the raiders would save you 10pts. If you did so Id put in Chart Officers to make movement a bit more flexible. The Demolisher is the obvious target for the swarms rams, but its a rough one to catch and very dangerous to end near....