7 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Is he? Paying 13pts for a scatter you will never use and impotency against enemy aces?

I love him to boost allied heavy units, however thats it.

Yep stick him with a couple of bombers for a cheap screening unit. Other than that I've not yet found a place for smiley.

How is Wedge so bad. Maarek Steele annihalates him.

**** Yavaris.

2 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

How is Wedge so bad. Maarek Steele annihalates him.

**** Yavaris.

Wutcha mean? Maarek average damage is 3 with his ability. Wedge can hit Maarek for 4 damage and 2 Acc, potentially killing him with a Yavaris activation. Or tossing 5 damage twice. Improbable, but not impossible.

In truth it's more about the fleet that the fighter flies with and not any individual fighter....

A so called average fighter can sing like an 8oz fillet steak with the right fleet and support or can be total dog food in the wrong fleet. The garbage truck is a prime example..... Lump of poo...... Unless it's played with the right support in the right way..... Then it's great.

so the best fighter is the one your fleet needs and supports properly.

Yet they both serve different anti-squadron rolls. Valen becomes the last man standing and acts as a buff to YVs and other heavy squads. Wedge is an aggro generating machine that burns bright but fast. Drawing fire to protect other aces.

Wedge is a much better bombing capacity (Black bomber vs blue) makes him a better all around squad to me. Though not the best Rebels have

Every Fighter has its down side. And I play mostly Imperial, (or I would probably say the A-wing) but I am so surprised no one mentioned the TIE Fighter. It is so good for its price. The downside it has is that having a lot of them means that they require a lot of fighter activations. But they are so cheap I feel like I don't need to spend my actions to activate them if I don't want to. They can be taken out pretty quickly by sustained anti-fighter attacks from ships, especially ones with multiple blue dice, but If your ISD is shooting at my TIE Fighters then it is one less shot at my ships.

B-wing's that is all.

On ‎23‎.‎03‎.‎2017 at 7:41 PM, Undeadguy said:

Wutcha mean? Maarek average damage is 3 with his ability. Wedge can hit Maarek for 4 damage and 2 Acc, potentially killing him with a Yavaris activation. Or tossing 5 damage twice. Improbable, but not impossible.

So you compare an average roll against a perfect roll, a perfect timing (Wedge after Maarek) AND with an extra Yavaris on one side? And think this is a good comparison?

If you want to compare these two. You have to check the raw stats and the Effect, and not some made-up scenario. And on this they are equal.
I just like Maarek more because of the speed. 5 is so much better than 3. And his effect works against squadrons and ships.

Maarek can kill Wedge with a flight controllers Jendon double. Not that unlikely odds either.

On 3/23/2017 at 2:33 PM, Undeadguy said:

Oh wait, I forgot to take out the extra crit damage from my calculator. I had averaged both rerolls to get 3, but it's different now. Assuming my math is correct, this is what you get.

Valen + Howl/FC
Reroll blue: 3 average
Reroll black: 3.125 average

Valen + Howl + FC
Reroll blue: 3.5 average
Reroll black: 3.625 average

Wedge is at 3.25 with +2 and reroll.
3.75 with FC as well.

So Valen with 1 buff averages almost as much as Wedge does with his buff, and adding in both FC and Howl increases average damage by .5. No big surprise there. Valen is 13, and FC is 6, so for 19 points you can do the equivalent of what Wedge does. Not bad IMO.

So I'm gonna let you finish, but when you are done, I'm going to mention FC + Vader.

3 hours ago, Tokra said:

So you compare an average roll against a perfect roll, a perfect timing (Wedge after Maarek) AND with an extra Yavaris on one side? And think this is a good comparison?

If you want to compare these two. You have to check the raw stats and the Effect, and not some made-up scenario. And on this they are equal.
I just like Maarek more because of the speed. 5 is so much better than 3. And his effect works against squadrons and ships.

You could look and see that I did the numbers for Wedge's average damage.

On ‎23‎.‎03‎.‎2017 at 7:41 PM, Undeadguy said:

Wutcha mean? Maarek average damage is 3 with his ability. Wedge can hit Maarek for 4 damage and 2 Acc , potentially killing him with a Yavaris activation. Or tossing 5 damage twice. Improbable, but not impossible.

9 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

You could look and see that I did the numbers for Wedge's average damage.

I dont mean what you wrote earlier. I mean the one quote here.
The Green is average
The Blue is max (perfect roll) at perfect timing (after Maarek)
The Red is bonus from Yavaris

Basically what someone can read from it (no idea if you mean it), is that Wedge is better than Maarek, because he can kill Maarek in one round. But by ignoring the part, that Maarek could do the same (with the support from other cards), even easier, because he activate first.

But, in my opinion, he is not. I find them equal. each has his bonus and weakness. I prefer Maarek because he is faster. Wedge on the other hand has a better access to support cards from the rebels (All fighter, follow me, Yavaris, Dutch, Adar, ...). But in direct compare, without this support, he is not this much better as any other unique X-Wing with defense tokens.

12 hours ago, Reinholt said:

So I'm gonna let you finish, but when you are done, I'm going to mention FC + Vader.

Vader
3.25 average (6.46 points/average damage)
5 max (4.2 points/max damage)

Vader + FC
4 damage average (5.25 points/average damage)
6 max (3.5 points/max damage)

Valen
2.25 average ( 5.77 points/average damage)
Reroll: 2.625 average (4.95 points/average reroll damage)
3 max (4.33 points/max damage)

Valen + Howl + FC
Reroll blue: 3.5 average ( 3.71 points/average blue reroll)
Reroll black: 3.625 average ( 3.58 points/average black reroll)
5 max ( 2.6 points/max damage)

So Vader will consistently deal more damage when he attacks, regardless of the conditions. He does cost 8 more points than Valen, but you have a higher damage potential. I didn't factor in the support for the points calculations, since those can also support other squads. Counting them, Valen actually costs more to reach his max potential than it does for Vader, and even then Valen caps at 5 and Vader caps at 6.

It really comes down to players choice, like every other decision. Valen has the opposite of Escort, while Vader has Escort. I think in the long run, Valen will have better point efficiency because he will be alive longer. But at the same time, Valen is not good at attacking Scatter aces. If I'm going to run an alpha strike Imp ball, I'll take Valen over Vader, but that's my preference. Vader+Jendon is capable of killing most squads.

When the OP says role what it means?

I think on: alpha strike(1), screen(2), bomber(3), killer(4), dragonslayer(5), escort(6).

Vader is good and perfect with Vector at 1, great at 2, good at 3, the best at 4, and great at 5 and 6.

Maarek is great at 1, 2, 3 and 4, not great at 5 and useless at 6

Bossk is meh at 1 (good with vector), great at 2, 3 and 4, the best at 5 and useless at 6

Morna Kee is meh at 1 (good with vector), great at 2, probably the best at 3, great at 4, bad at 5 and useless at 6.

IMHO Vader is the best one. The problem here is everytime I look for a multi-role squadron there are some roles I want more than others. Sometimes I don't care for screening, sometimes I am happy for a 0.75 AS when I usually want at least 1 when bombing, etc.

Vader can do whatever a squadron could do. Maarek is close to him and if you don't want escort he will be better but Vader works for everything.

In the rebel side Luke and Wedge are pretty similar. The first is better against ships the second is better against squadron. Problem: the alpha strike. Corran has the Alpha but doesn't have escort. Dash is there too. I let the rebel scum to the rebel scum.

If we just talk about damage output what about Morna? AA 2.8 (3) AS 2.25 (what can only be won by Keyan and Boba with their skills). She is far above from the average damage of squadrons on both categories.

Well, if you factor in a specific keyword (Escort) as a relevant factor, which by chance Vader has but none of the others, where does the same line of thought lead if you include the roles 7 Intel, 8 Counter, 9 resilience/tank?

With 8 and 9 included I am pretty sure some of the Scatter Aces come out on top...?

40 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGiraffe said:

Well, if you factor in a specific keyword (Escort) as a relevant factor, which by chance Vader has but none of the others, where does the same line of thought lead if you include the roles 7 Intel, 8 Counter, 9 resilience/tank?

With 8 and 9 included I am pretty sure some of the Scatter Aces come out on top...?

Escort is actually a role what counter is not. Tank is something useful as screen and as escort not a role per se IMHO. Intel does but is more focused than escort and was intel does is to allow bombing but I could agree with you. Anyway there is not any intel squadron close enough. Put intel in and it won't change anything.

What is this thread about? multi-role right?

- Vader can alpha strike very well. Perfectly with vector.

- Vader can bomb with the same average than bombers. He cannot resolve crits that is true.

- Vader can engage to protect your ships. Has 5 hull and defense token. He us not Solo but is good for it.

- He IS the killer with 3.25 average damage and a potential 5 damages.

- He can kill aces with those 3 blue dice and his average damage.

- He can escort your VIP squadrons and combo with Dengar, Soontir, Rhymer, thanks to escort keyword, his 5 hull and his defense token.

- He doesn't provide intel but who can do it and fulfill all the above as well as he does?

What can I say? He seems really multi-role to me.

Other thing is that we were looking for the cheapest multi-role or just talking about AA and AS damage.

2 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

When the OP says role what it means?

I think on: alpha strike(1), screen(2), bomber(3), killer(4), dragonslayer(5), escort(6).

Vader is good and perfect with Vector at 1, great at 2, good at 3, the best at 4, and great at 5 and 6.

Maarek is great at 1, 2, 3 and 4, not great at 5 and useless at 6

Bossk is meh at 1 (good with vector), great at 2, 3 and 4, the best at 5 and useless at 6

Morna Kee is meh at 1 (good with vector), great at 2, probably the best at 3, great at 4, bad at 5 and useless at 6.

IMHO Vader is the best one. The problem here is everytime I look for a multi-role squadron there are some roles I want more than others. Sometimes I don't care for screening, sometimes I am happy for a 0.75 AS when I usually want at least 1 when bombing, etc.

Vader can do whatever a squadron could do. Maarek is close to him and if you don't want escort he will be better but Vader works for everything.

In the rebel side Luke and Wedge are pretty similar. The first is better against ships the second is better against squadron. Problem: the alpha strike. Corran has the Alpha but doesn't have escort. Dash is there too. I let the rebel scum to the rebel scum.

If we just talk about damage output what about Morna? AA 2.8 (3) AS 2.25 (what can only be won by Keyan and Boba with their skills). She is far above from the average damage of squadrons on both categories.

Define dragonslayer please

40 minutes ago, chr335 said:

Define dragonslayer please

Ace killer

57 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Ace killer

Good thing I asked if assumed dragon ment capital ships.

I never use wedge, but thats more bad experience with his ability- i ised his ability nearly 20 times (120 dice) across a number of games, never rolled more than 1 damage in e very single one of those rolls

ive not used him since

But he does have a good potential, i suppose