1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

That still doesn't make any sense since their reasoning is the range of the attack is affected, not the range of the ship. So even if you argue "in arc beyond range 2" and "in arc and at range 1" are two different things, the YOU still refers to the SHIP.

Per the rules reference:

"When measuring range for an attack, the attacker
measures to the closest point of the target ship that
is inside the attacker’s firing arc." this clearly follows the 'in arc at range x' description: "Some card abilities use the expression “inside firing arc at Range X” or “inside
firing arc beyond Range X.” This compound phrase defines a specific situation
where the closest point to closest point distance between two ships, when
measured inside firing arc, is at a specific range band. "

So following that we can say the inquisitor treats the closest point between two ships measured in arc as being at range 1. This means the defender can't use autothrusters because they are failing the compound clause 'in arc at range x'. CDP doesn't use the compound clause and thus just measures raw distance between ships because it checks for being in arc and also being at range 1.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

That still doesn't make any sense since their reasoning is the range of the attack is affected, not the range of the ship. So even if you argue "in arc beyond range 2" and "in arc and at range 1" are two different things, the YOU still refers to the SHIP.

That is true. The Inquisitor's ability as written should not change the range in arc, but that is the only reason I can think of that autothrusters wouldn't work with Inquisitor and it is still consistent with everything that is not affected by The Inquisitor's ability.

So here are the 3 sections from the FAQ that are relevant in this instance:

Autothrusters

This card should read:

“When defending, if you are inside the attacker’s firing arc beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker’s firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a Evade result. You can equip this card only if you have the Boost action icon.”

Inside Firing Arc at Range X

Some card abilities use the expression “inside firing arc at Range X” or “inside firing arc beyond Range X.” This compound phrase defines a specific situation where the closest point to closest point distance between two ships, when measured inside firing arc, is at a specific range band. See the diagram below.

The Inquisitor

When the Inquisitor attacks with his primary weapon, he rolls an additional attack die. If the defender is at Range 3, the defender does not roll an additional defence die.

Only the range of the attack is treated as Range 1. Any abilities that reference the range of ships, such as Carnor Jax or Concord Dawn Protector, are not affected by The Inquisitor’s ability.

Autothrusters does not trigger against The Inquisitor’s primary weapon attack.

So basically the last line on the Inquisitor FAQ entry completely contradicts the errata to Autothrusters with the "inside firing arc beyond Range X" compound phrase clearly indicating that Autothrusters should trigger from actual range not attack range. The FAQ for inquisitor specifically says that it only affects the attack range and the Autothrusters Errata & FAQ say nothing about attack range.

But that last line on the Inquisitor FAQ messes things up.

Due to this we will forever see queries like CDP come up because there is the rules and then there is the special Inquisitor contradiction.

On 3/22/2017 at 9:19 AM, ObiWonka said:

They use almost identical wording. If you'd like to point to some actual rules we're overlooking, great. "Apparently" doesn't cut it.

It's the "and"

CDP checks arc and range separately. "check this and check that." you can have range-2 shots where CDP procs, because the ships are at range 1 of each other. Inquisitor does not change the range between the ships, so no CDP unless you're actually at range 1 of each other.

Autothrusters (with errata) checks arc and range as a bundle, which means if the inquisitor has a shot, it is range 1 in arc.

19 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

So here are the 3 sections from the FAQ that are relevant in this instance:

Autothrusters

This card should read:

“When defending, if you are inside the attacker’s firing arc beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker’s firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a Evade result. You can equip this card only if you have the Boost action icon.”

Inside Firing Arc at Range X

Some card abilities use the expression “inside firing arc at Range X” or “inside firing arc beyond Range X.” This compound phrase defines a specific situation where the closest point to closest point distance between two ships, when measured inside firing arc, is at a specific range band. See the diagram below.

The Inquisitor

When the Inquisitor attacks with his primary weapon, he rolls an additional attack die. If the defender is at Range 3, the defender does not roll an additional defence die.

Only the range of the attack is treated as Range 1. Any abilities that reference the range of ships, such as Carnor Jax or Concord Dawn Protector, are not affected by The Inquisitor’s ability.

Autothrusters does not trigger against The Inquisitor’s primary weapon attack.

So basically the last line on the Inquisitor FAQ entry completely contradicts the errata to Autothrusters with the "inside firing arc beyond Range X" compound phrase clearly indicating that Autothrusters should trigger from actual range not attack range. The FAQ for inquisitor specifically says that it only affects the attack range and the Autothrusters Errata & FAQ say nothing about attack range.

But that last line on the Inquisitor FAQ messes things up.

Due to this we will forever see queries like CDP come up because there is the rules and then there is the special Inquisitor contradiction.

There is no contradiction. Autothrusters clearly state that it is the Range of the attack that must be beyond Range 2. And the Inquisitor treats that Range as 1.

43 minutes ago, StephenEsven said:

There is no contradiction. Autothrusters clearly state that it is the Range of the attack that must be beyond Range 2. And the Inquisitor treats that Range as 1.

No, Autothrusters in no way, shape or form refers to the ATTACK range. please quote the section of text on autothrusters that states "Attack Range" if you think there is one.

Inquisitor SPECIFICALLY refers to attack range.

and I will post this excerpt from the FAQ again:

“inside firing arc beyond Range X.” This compound phrase defines a specific situation where the closest point to closest point distance between two ships, when measured inside firing arc, is at a specific range band

this is black and white, Autothrusters measures the range between ships, it does not care about the attack range RAW, but FFG made an exception for the Inquisitor which muddies the waters.

17 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

No, Autothrusters in no way, shape or form refers to the ATTACK range. please quote the section of text on autothrusters that states "Attack Range" if you think there is one.

Inquisitor SPECIFICALLY refers to attack range.

and I will post this excerpt from the FAQ again:

“inside firing arc beyond Range X.” This compound phrase defines a specific situation where the closest point to closest point distance between two ships, when measured inside firing arc, is at a specific range band

this is black and white, Autothrusters measures the range between ships, it does not care about the attack range RAW, but FFG made an exception for the Inquisitor which muddies the waters.

The highlighted section is the attack range. You are looking for something that doesn't exist, the inquisitor is the only card that references 'range of the attack' to my knowledge in that specific language. As I posted and then was conveniently ignored on, the rules reference clearly uses the same idea of 'in arc at range x' for determining the attack range. Because of this the inquisitor should be read as 'treat the defender as being in arc at range 1 when determining the range of the attack' but that's pretty hefty wording that would confuse non-rules buffs most likely.

The current FAQ doesn't describe it well, but I thought either the article with the original change for "in arc at range x" or the original FAQ specified that "in arc at range x" abilities use the range of the attack, which is why inquisitor changes it.

23 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

The current FAQ doesn't describe it well, but I thought either the article with the original change for "in arc at range x" or the original FAQ specified that "in arc at range x" abilities use the range of the attack, which is why inquisitor changes it.

Except that is not quite true since a weapon that can fire out of arc can have a range 1 attack and still trigger a card like tactician, as explained in the FAQ's example. The only reasoning behind the idea that the Inquisitor affects abilities that specify "range in arc" is the fact that Autothrusters doesn't work and there are no other cards, to my knowledge, to disprove that explanation.

1 hour ago, joeshmoe554 said:

Except that is not quite true since a weapon that can fire out of arc can have a range 1 attack and still trigger a card like tactician, as explained in the FAQ's example. The only reasoning behind the idea that the Inquisitor affects abilities that specify "range in arc" is the fact that Autothrusters doesn't work and there are no other cards, to my knowledge, to disprove that explanation.

Sorry. My comment was for non-turret attacks. Turrets get extra fun...

I'm right there with you @ObiWonka. I participated in the great debate thread re: CDP vs Inquisitor on the side of CDP does trigger. Now the FAQ is out and it's officially inconsistent

I found the FAQ hypocritical and without explanation . "Only the range of the attack is treated as Range 1. Any abilities that reference the range of ships, such as Carnor Jax or Concord Dawn Protector, are not affected by The Inquisitor’s ability. "Autothrusters does not trigger against The Inquisitor’s primary weapon attack."

If Concord Dawn Protector and Carnor Jax do not work because of ship range than Autothrusters should as it clearly leaves the ship at Range 3.

The Inquisitor needs to be errata'd to include "Any abilities that reference the range of the attack for the enemy ship do not trigger".

On 3/25/2017 at 8:00 PM, nitrobenz said:

@ObiWonkaNow the FAQ is out and it's officially inconsistent

The FAQ has been inconsistent on this issue from the outset.