I know this has been in the FAQ for a while, but reading The Inquisitor's entry again since they felt the need to include Concord Dawn Protector, it seems to be contradicting itself. The FAQ entry:

"The Inquisitor
When the Inquisitor attacks with his primary
weapon, he rolls an additional attack die. If
the defender is at Range 3, the defender does
not roll an additional defense die.

Only the range of the attack is treated
as Range 1. Any abilities that reference
the range of ships, such as Carnor Jax or
Concord Dawn Protector, are not affected by
The Inquisitor’s ability.

Autothrusters does not trigger against The
Inquisitor’s primary weapon attack."

Bolded for emphasis. Because here's the text of CDP:

"When defending, if you are inside the attacker's firing arc and at Range 1 and the attacker is inside your firing arc, add 1 [evade] result."

And here's Autothrsters:

"When defending, if you are inside the attacker’s firing arc beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker’s firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a result. You can equip this card only if you have the [boost] action icon."

Again, bolded for emphasis.

So, per the FAQ the attack is Range 1, but not the ship, so CDP doesn't trigger because it cares whether or not the ship is at Range 1.

Also per the FAQ, the attack is Range 1, but not the ship, so Autothrusters doesn't trigger... even though the ship isn't at Range 1???

Someone help me out here, because this seems to be a very clear contradiction.

Honestly, it basically seems to come down to 'because FFG says so' with their extra last bit of the Inquisitor's entry, given based on using CDP as an example it would seem that otherwise Auto Thrusters wouldn't be impacted.

I seem to recall in an earlier FAQ there was further explanation about Autothrusters in regards to exactly this interaction, but even then said explanation seemed to clash with the Inqusitor's and Autothruster's FAQ entries, and in any case that text now seems to be gone, if it ever existed and I'm not just crazy.

I got an answer on Fenn and by extension CDP, and it was that they don't trigger versus Inq.

It's basically 'Devs say so' on that at this point for me but going into the argument is way too much effort.

Yep, there is that contradiction. I can see CDP not working because of the range between ships but it seems AT should. Or to quote Yul, "As it is written, so let it be done". Or something close to that.

OK, so I'm not crazy... what e-mail do we send rules questions to? :/

1 minute ago, ObiWonka said:

OK, so I'm not crazy... what e-mail do we send rules questions to? :/

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

23 minutes ago, FireSpy said:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

Thanks, message sent. I like how X-Wing is near the top of the "product line" selection drop-down, like "oh yeah, we screw this one up all the time."

20 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

Thanks, message sent. I like how X-Wing is near the top of the "product line" selection drop-down, like "oh yeah, we screw this one up all the time."

That, and its one of their most popular games, so more people will have questions

9 minutes ago, DeathstarII said:

That, and its one of their most popular games, so more people will have questions

I know, just having a bit of fun with it.

Just now, ObiWonka said:

I know, just having a bit of fun with it.

I figured, I bet this rules question forum probably has more posts than 90% of the other question forums

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I got an answer on Fenn and by extension CDP, and it was that they don't trigger versus Inq.

It's basically 'Devs say so' on that at this point for me but going into the argument is way too much effort.

So, what was your Q&A on this one?

7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I didn't think it was worth the bother of posting since it was just 'as in the FAQ'. I got the same answer twice.

This one bugs me because it seems really inconsistent to me.

It is, and me too

Personally I believe that adding CDP to that list puts it into the wrong place. Fenn's ability would go there as it is the range of the ship, but I do believe CDP references the range of the attack (at least based on the Autothrusters precedent).

That said, some resolution on the issue is better than none.

As per the wording in the OP, both CDP and Autothrusters say "you" which always refers to the ship.

Fenn and Carnor reference the "enemy ship", which I suppose could be different by some sh*tty FFG logic, but CDP and Autothrusters should absolutely have the same ruling.

It seems even worst then Omega Leader... This is really arbitrary and just based on, we want The Inquisitor to always be the best... whatever the logic.

There is a difference between CDP and Autothrusters as one is measuring the range in arc and the other is measuring the range between the two ships. CDP will still trigger if the ship is at range 2 in arc as long as part of the ship is at range 1. Autothrusters on the other hand requires the portion of the ship in arc to be at range 3.

Using the "Inside Firing Arc At Range X Example" image from page 5 of the FAQ, if we rotate the Firspray 90 degrees and equip CDP (This is a Concord Dawn Firespray), then it would trigger CDP on the K-Wing's attack since the ship is in arc and at range 1 of the K-Wing.

I can't think of any other abilities that trigger while defending and measure the range in arc to compare to autothrusters.

...what?

25 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

There is a difference between CDP and Autothrusters as one is measuring the range in arc and the other is measuring the range between the two ships. CDP will still trigger if the ship is at range 2 in arc as long as part of the ship is at range 1. Autothrusters on the other hand requires the portion of the ship in arc to be at range 3.

Using the "Inside Firing Arc At Range X Example" image from page 5 of the FAQ, if we rotate the Firspray 90 degrees and equip CDP (This is a Concord Dawn Firespray), then it would trigger CDP on the K-Wing's attack since the ship is in arc and at range 1 of the K-Wing.

I can't think of any other abilities that trigger while defending and measure the range in arc to compare to autothrusters.

Re-read the FAQ. Neither works vs The Inquisitor.

Yes neither work. CDP doesn't work because the actual range between the two ships is not affected (same as Carnor Jax, Fen Rau, Gemmer Sojan, etc.) and Autothrusters doesn't work because apparently the "range in arc" is affected.

They use almost identical wording. If you'd like to point to some actual rules we're overlooking, great. "Apparently" doesn't cut it.

5 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

They use almost identical wording. If you'd like to point to some actual rules we're overlooking, great. "Apparently" doesn't cut it.

The rulings are arbitrary and inconsistent AFAICT, but they are clear in the FAQ and answers from Frank since.

7 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

They use almost identical wording. If you'd like to point to some actual rules we're overlooking, great. "Apparently" doesn't cut it.

But they don't use identical wording. "in arc and at Range 1" is not the same as "in arc at Range 1" as is very clearly defined in the FAQ under "Inside Firing Arc at Range X".

Using the graphic example from that section, the Firespray is in arc and at range 1 of the K-Wing, but it is not in arc at range 1.

I say apparently because the FAQ does not say that The Inquisitor changes the range in arc, only that Autothrusters does not trigger. Since that is the only card I can think of that triggers while defending and relies on a condition of "in arc at range X", that would seem to be the reason it does not work and if there is another card released with that timing and condition then I would expect it to follow the same rules regarding when dealing with The Inquisitor.

1 hour ago, joeshmoe554 said:

But they don't use identical wording. "in arc and at Range 1" is not the same as "in arc at Range 1" as is very clearly defined in the FAQ under "Inside Firing Arc at Range X".

Using the graphic example from that section, the Firespray is in arc and at range 1 of the K-Wing, but it is not in arc at range 1.

I say apparently because the FAQ does not say that The Inquisitor changes the range in arc, only that Autothrusters does not trigger. Since that is the only card I can think of that triggers while defending and relies on a condition of "in arc at range X", that would seem to be the reason it does not work and if there is another card released with that timing and condition then I would expect it to follow the same rules regarding when dealing with The Inquisitor.

This post is exactly right "In arc AND at range 1" is a statement with 2 separate requirements. In arc. At range 1 (as always measured via model to model).

That still doesn't make any sense since their reasoning is the range of the attack is affected, not the range of the ship. So even if you argue "in arc beyond range 2" and "in arc and at range 1" are two different things, the YOU still refers to the SHIP.