Bear with me here, I'm playing devil's advocate for a moment. This is a hypothetical situation that could affect certain uses of Palpatine... particularly when used in conjunction with cards like Lightweight Frame.

Let's say the following game situations occur:

• Attacker rolls dice, modifies, resulting in blank-hit-crit.
• TIE Striker rolls 2 defense dice, and rolls blank-blank.
• Palpatine declares "EVADE" on the pending Lightweight Frame roll.
• TIE Striker rolls 1 additional die, resulting in an evade.

Now, one of two things happen...

1. Palpatine changes the evade into an evade. The hit is stopped, and the Striker suffers one critical damage.
2. Palpatine changes one of the blanks into an evade, and the attack is dodged entirely.

...wait, what?

The wording on Palpatine doesn't seem to PRECLUDE changing a previously rolled die result, as long as that die result is still active. It only states that he changes "one of its results" to the stated result. Now, I'm sure that the INTENTION of the card is that Palpatine only modifies the results of that specific die roll, much like C-3PO only triggers off of a single initial defense roll, even if there's a way to re-roll dice (say, Rey/Finn). I'm just curious what you folks think about this possible interaction, and if there's ANY merit to it.

Your thoughts?

Palpable can only modify the dice rolled after he declares his use. That is the whole idea behind the errata.

So in your example a critical would still go through.

Light weight frame is actually not a good design. It should probably have added the extra die if the number of green dice to be rolled was less that the number of red dice rolled.

The number of dice can't change between calculating the number of green dice and rolling them. Rolling the extra die after the roll leads to situations like this.

The card doesn't even explicitly state to add the result of the extra roll to the original result. That is an implicit assumption and leads to ambiguity when dice results are referenced.

It's slippery.

From a rules viewpoint, it should be ok. But then again, there's no way this was intended.

26 minutes ago, StephenEsven said:

Palpable can only modify the dice rolled after he declares his use. That is the whole idea behind the errata.

(...)

Actually, there's no explicit wording to disallow this loophole. The results rolled before announcing Palpatine are still on the table, they are still results. If the text on Palp was "(...) After rolling, you must change 1 of THOSE dice results to the named result. ", then everything would be ok.

16 minutes ago, debiler said:

Actually, there's no explicit wording to disallow this loophole. The results rolled before announcing Palpatine are still on the table, they are still results. If the text on Palp was "(...) After rolling, you must change 1 of THOSE dice results to the named result. ", then everything would be ok.

This was my take on the situation. There is no explicit wording to either allow or disallow this. Hence the OP.

In general in x-wing when you roll a number of dice they produce a result. Palplatine is now worded so that you declare his use before rolling those dice and then modify the result after.

Lightweight frame introduced a situation where you roll dice producing a result, then roll 1 more die producing a second result, and then implicitly these results are added together. Because it is not explicitly stated this is what happend, we can't say for sure what dice result Palpatine is allowed to modify.

Thus I fall back to the spirit of the Errata, and say I would rule it as Palpatine being able to modify the dice result that came up after declaring his use.

I'm not seeing the issue here. LWF is done after rolling defense dice, palp is done after rolling attack or defense dice. Both are done at the same time so the owner of the effects gets to choose the order they are resolved in.

The issue is if you call Palp when you roll the extra die from LWF, do you only get to use him on that die, or on your whole dice pool?

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

The issue is if you call Palp when you roll the extra die from LWF, do you only get to use him on that die, or on your whole dice pool?

And that's where the rules are fuzzy. You may change one die of your results. It doesn't specify which results though. In the unique case of LWF, are there two results, or do they add up?

The Palp card states "before a friendly ship rolls dice, you may name a die result." As I read this, Palp must be declared before each opportunity to roll any dice.

The Roll Defense Dice step includes identify the number of dice to be rolled and resolving abilities that increase or decrease the number of dice, which would include LWF.

So in the "Roll Defense Dice" step my opinion would be that you have to declare Palp prior to rolling the initial dice.

For a Cluster mine - assuming you hit multiple sections - you roll 2 dice per section, so you could presumably declare Palp prior to any of the 2 dice rolls you are required to make, resolving 1 section at a time.

This is just my opinion and I think it is a good question by the OP that FFG should clarify.

4 minutes ago, USCGrad90 said:

The Roll Defense Dice step includes identify the number of dice to be rolled and resolving abilities that increase or decrease the number of dice, which would include LWF.

LWF explicitly triggers AFTER the inital roll though, arguably making it a separate roll.

Otherwise, a 2-die agility ship being attacked with a 3 die weapon would never actually know whether to roll the dice or not. You're being attacked with 3 dice, and defending with two, so you add one. But now you're being attack with 3 dice and defending with 3, so you don't. Etc. Or alternatively, if you were obstructed or at range 3 you could add the LWF die first then the obstruction/range die, and end up with more dice than you were supposed ot have.

10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

LWF explicitly triggers AFTER the inital roll though, arguably making it a separate roll.

Otherwise, a 2-die agility ship being attacked with a 3 die weapon would never actually know whether to roll the dice or not. You're being attacked with 3 dice, and defending with two, so you add one. But now you're being attack with 3 dice and defending with 3, so you don't. Etc. Or alternatively, if you were obstructed or at range 3 you could add the LWF die first then the obstruction/range die, and end up with more dice than you were supposed ot have.

Yep - it arguable - which is why I said it was my opinion - because that LWF roll is part of a bigger step of rolling defense dice.

I would have no problem if a TO ruled either way, but until FFG clarifies it, there will be different interpretations of when it can be applied.

FFG uses terms loosely and then has to come back later and clarify after we beat the rules to death on the forum.

Since ffg has said rolling and Rerolling two different things I can see a difference between rolling dice and rolling additional dice from lwf.

I'd say the simple way is to decide to use palp before any of the rolling but you can pick which result to change after rolling the die from lwf

That's how I'd expect it to be ruled personally, but we'll see.

Clear as mud!

Thanks for the opinions, all!

Just wanted to bump this because I am pretty sure on the Gold squadron podcast stream someone said that the judges ruled at worlds that not only could you declare Palp on the LWF die but you could modify any die in the pool with it. I was only half paying attention at the time though so I would love it if someone else could confirm.

Yeah, as it is written, you actually can call Palpa before rolling LWF.

And, also as it is written, you can modify any of that ships results.

Unless FFG clarifies it other way, it works perfectly

*note, in the following 'result pool' is my own concept to help illustrate.

The original defence roll of 2 dice adds 2 dice results to the result pool.

Palp is Declared before rolling LWF dice (perfectly legit)

LWF dice adds 1 dice result to the result pool

Palp can now change any dice results in the result pool.

Attack is over and the result pool is emptied.

This is all part of one defence die rolling step of one attack.

Things such as resolving cluster mines would have a separate damage rolling step for each token (with the 'result pool' emptied after each token is resolved), and Palp could be declared before any of them.