8 hours ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Besides which, Rogue One's Battle of Scarif was the 'first major victory' of the Rebel Alliance. If losing most of your fleet but stealing vital plans and destroying two ISDs counts as a first major victory, and the rebels here lose most of their fleet (which is smaller than the one at Scarif, so less ships lost overall) but destroy 5 ISDs, an Interdictor and the Empire's most accomplished admiral, then something is not right either in the timeline or in the definition of 'major victory'. As such, we can take it as a given that the rebels will lose, and miserably so (though at least 2 hammerheads and the Ghost survive). The only real question is 'by how much will they lose, and what do they take out in the process?). Well, that and 'Who dies?'

They completed the objective of getting the Death Star plans and from what I gathered most of the fleet other than the MC75, a few transports, and Blue squadron made it.

I just got chills watching that trailer, watched the Obi Wan episode with my eldest and we loved it!

3 hours ago, chr335 said:

They completed the objective of getting the Death Star plans and from what I gathered most of the fleet other than the MC75, a few transports, and Blue squadron made it.

I know that. What I'm saying is that within context, having no plans to capture, then the destruction of 5 ISDs an Interdictor and Thrawn, in a time when that was the primary objective, should be an equivalent victory. As such, it cannot happen, and so the Rebels lose.

5 hours ago, chr335 said:

They completed the objective of getting the Death Star plans and from what I gathered most of the fleet other than the MC75, a few transports, and Blue squadron made it.

A nebulon and a bunch of corvettes were destroyed along with an entire Alliance commando group.

Blue squadron was devastated enough they werent battle ready for the Death Star Attack. Against a death star you throw every fighter group you have so theres no way they were on escort duty elsewhere. Also dont forget that the majority of starfighters at Scarif would be destroyed a few days later.

43 minutes ago, Forresto said:

A nebulon and a bunch of corvettes were destroyed along with an entire Alliance commando group.

Blue squadron was devastated enough they werent battle ready for the Death Star Attack. Against a death star you throw every fighter group you have so theres no way they were on escort duty elsewhere. Also dont forget that the majority of starfighters at Scarif would be destroyed a few days later.

I am not saying loses where not heavy just that the attack achieved it's over all objective of stealing the plans.

Not to derail this fascinatingly repetitive discussion about the level of 'victory' achieved at Scarif, but back to the point about rebels:

In ANH it says the rebels have just won their first victory. (Scarif).

Meaning that this upcoming battle must end poorly for the rebels somehow.

Whether that is a soul crushing defeat or a forced retreat is yet to be seen.

They are going to lose 'Chopper Base'.

In that sense it is a defeat. The Rebels will have lost a major sector base that they put considerable work into finding.

I have a strong feeling the Rebels are going to loose that Quasar Fire. We don't see it at Scarif. I imagine a few of their other ships will get trashed, but I can see some of the corvettes, transports, and even Nebs escaping. Not that Dorito though

Is Kallus still alive? Can he go Heroically sacrifice himself to blow up Thrawn's ship at the moment of triumph?

5 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Is Kallus still alive? Can he go Heroically sacrifice himself to blow up Thrawn's ship at the moment of triumph?

"But ... it was so artistically done."

Just now, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

But it was so artisticly done.

I have no idea what this means, but in the trailer we see an ISD explode so...

2 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

I have no idea what this means

In the EU, Its what Thrawn said when his bodyguard Ruhk stabbed him through the heart through the back of his Chair.

12 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Is Kallus still alive? Can he go Heroically sacrifice himself to blow up Thrawn's ship at the moment of triumph?

Not earned. I mean i'm not saying you're wrong its just the story hasn't had enough of the Imperial side I think to justify that in a satisfying way.

The difference between this season and the Thrawn Trilogy is that the Noghri uprising was consistently and constantly integrated into the story to the point that it wasnt necessarily a twist Rukh killed Thrawn. The books hammered the Noghri change of loyalty over and over and over again. Its just that Timothy Zahn smartly had so many things happening at the end of the Last Command when the moment came you totally forgot the Noghri were about to strike back. It also wasnt grandiose either such as the Chimaera blowing up, it was just stabby stab.

Not only that but the reason Rukh was able to kill Thrawn is because the latter didnt know the Noghri had betrayed him. In Rebels Thrawn knows Kallus is a traitor who attempted to assassinate him.

29 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

I have no idea what this means, but in the trailer we see an ISD explode so...

I thought it was an interdictor blowing up. I thought I coukd make out gravity well projectors on it. I could be wrong...

I believe you are correct

54 minutes ago, shmitty said:

They are going to lose 'Chopper Base'.

In that sense it is a defeat. The Rebels will have lost a major sector base that they put considerable work into finding.

But I worry that they'll manage to destroy the TIE Defender factory on Lothal, all the same, depriving the Empire of TIE Defenders. (Explaining why we don't see them again, but also making the battle...?arguably a victory?)

I hope they don't go that way, but that result as a means of providing a necessary-for-a-kid's-show-"happy ending" alongside the need to explain why TIE Defenders don't exist in the OT...

I fear they might...

The first Star Wars screen image that was ever viewed said, "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire."

If anything but defeat happens for the Rebellion from here on out, it will be a tragic shame because they will have abandoned the foundation that made STAR WARS a great movie in '77 and put it on the track that made it a great franchise. The Rebels are supposed to be underdogs, constantly beaten until Scarrif happens and we are introduced to Luke who turns things around.

It's the one problematic thing with Rebels.... That as much as we love the Phoenix crew, they have had entirely too much success to reinforce those first words already. But now as the show approaches the events of Scarrif and the Phoenix Crew begins to be assimilated into the larger Rebellion itself, it becomes even more important that we see them lose. =

I think the scrolling from ANH can be viewed from a certain point of view. The Empire in Rebels was far more concerned about the existence of "Jedi Leadership" than localized Rebellions. While I don't think they need to be crushed, they definitely shouldn't "win" the fight. But again, define winning. Destroying the factory? Escaping an ambush while avoiding heavy losses? All depends on the point of view.

I think whatever they do, they should be trying to explain why the Defenders and Thrawn aren't in the original timeline. But they do have at least one more season to wrap up those lines. I like the show regardless. It's fun and entertaining.

2 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

In the EU, Its what Thrawn said when his bodyguard Ruhk stabbed him through the heart through the back of his Chair.

Through the back of his chair? I've always had the impression that Ruhk stabbed him from the front (very quickly). Ruhk's blade is always described as small, I would not expect it to be long enough to stick through a chair back, and all the way through a torso to have part of it protruding from his chest.

3 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Through the back of his chair? I've always had the impression that Ruhk stabbed him from the front (very quickly). Ruhk's blade is always described as small, I would not expect it to be long enough to stick through a chair back, and all the way through a torso to have part of it protruding from his chest.

Nope, pretty sure it was through the back of the chair. I'll look it up to confirm, but pretty sure it was through the back.

The battle of sharif was the first victory for the rebel alliance. If I'm remembering correctly, the mon mothma episode indicated that they were still trying to actually form "the alliance to restore the republic" and that, while Phoenix cell seems to be pretty well organized, it is still considered one of numerous independent organizations because there is no "Rebel Alliance" yet.

Despite the fact that all the main characters talk as if there is. They're really kind of inconsistent about that.

Just now, Forgottenlore said:

Through the back of his chair? I've always had the impression that Ruhk stabbed him from the front (very quickly). Ruhk's blade is always described as small, I would not expect it to be long enough to stick through a chair back, and all the way through a torso to have part of it protruding from his chest.

Its been... a few years since I read it...

But I recall Thrawn looking down and seeing the Blade and the blossoming stain....... Of course, it may have been the hilt...

So, To Wookies we go!

"Rukh turned on his master, stabbing him through the chest from behind before fleeing the bridge."



Now, to see if I can find the iactual book quote....

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Its been... a few years since I read it...

But I recall Thrawn looking down and seeing the Blade and the blossoming stain....... Of course, it may have been the hilt...

So, To Wookies we go!

"Rukh turned on his master, stabbing him through the chest from behind before fleeing the bridge."



Now, to see if I can find the iactual book quote....

Ninja'd before I could even begin typing. Had copied the link and everything. . .

3 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Nope, pretty sure it was through the back of the chair. I'll look it up to confirm, but pretty sure it was through the back.

Got the book right here.

No, you're right. It does specifically say that the tip of the knife is "glittering in the center of the bloodstain", so he was definitely stabbed in the back.

GOTIT!