12 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

Haven’t flown it, but the logic is it’ll be just like I fly Com Relay but a point cheaper.

I've flown Plot Armor. With that, you generally don't spend the evade unless you'll end shieldless, which makes sense with regen and you're always spending on on defense. With this, if you're taking shots and have to spend any tokens, then either Advanced Optics sits empty or Intensity can't be refreshed. That's every turn.

1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

This sounds right to me. With Intensity, if you want to spend Evade tokens for Evade results, you'll need to be spending your focus token to flip back. In which case, you won't be able to save it with AdvO. Intensity/Primed works great with BB-8, or else VI/AdvO seems strong on paper (partly because it might allow the cheaper PS8 Poe). Intensity/AdvO seems clashes hard on paper.

Yeah, that's how I've seen it. After a good deal of proxy games in various lists, I feel VI/AO is much stronger than any Intensity version. I also like it because, aside from token strippers, you're in control of when that focus is spent. I've had plenty of times with Intensity versions that I didn't even have an opportunity to BR or Boost to get the "free" token.

I guess if you play Poe to run most of the time, Intensity/AO could be played like a cheaper Poetensity, but isn't that bad? Don't you want your point fortress to be worth more, not less?

I just don't think AdvO could be better with Intensity than Primed Thrusters (even on R2-D2) or Comm Relay. Either AO goes empty (and is wasted points), or Intensity isn't flipped (and is wasted points), or you have an Evade you didn't spend (again, wasted points).

Comm Relay has a similar issue, where you can't focus the turn you refill it, and thus can't Intensity the next turn, but that highlights the difference in how CR gets used in such lists. It's more of a "panic button" than something you'd spend every turn.

Thinking about a best-case turn sequence:

• Turn 1. AdvO stacked, BB-8/Intensity an Evade. Action on TL or Boost. Spend the Evade for results. Spend the focus to flip.
• Turn 2. Focus action to restack AdvO. (BB-8 maybe).
• Repeat . That's not that terrible once I type it out. An Evade and a TL/Boost every other turn, but every other turn is wicked predictable. It's almost like a weaker Corran, where you're alternating big turns with weak turns.

Compare to Intensity/PT/BB-8

• Turn 1a. BB-8/Intensity an Evade, Action to Focus. Spend the Evade for results. Spend the focus to flip.
• Turn 1b. BB-8/Intensity to Focus, Action to TL or Boost. Spend the focus to flip.
• Repeat every turn , with the option to Boost for a Focus after a K-Turn or T-Roll, and to still BB-8 the next turn. I think I'd prefer to be consistently strong across multiple turns.

or VI/AdvO (and choice of BB-8/R2-D2).

• Turn 1. AdvO Stacked. Action on TL or Boost. Regain a shield or do a Barrel Roll.
• Repeat every turn , and always have a focus after a K-Turn or T-Roll. Plus, you've gained 1 or 2 PS.

4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I just don't think AdvO could be better with Intensity than Primed Thrusters (even on R2-D2) or Comm Relay. Either AO goes empty (and is wasted points), or Intensity isn't flipped (and is wasted points), or you have an Evade you didn't spend (again, wasted points).

Comm Relay has a similar issue, where you can't focus the turn you refill it, and thus can't Intensity the next turn, but that highlights the difference in how CR gets used in such lists. It's more of a "panic button" than something you'd spend every turn.

Thinking about a best-case turn sequence:

• Turn 1. AdvO stacked, BB-8/Intensity an Evade. Action on TL or Boost. Spend the Evade for results. Spend the focus to flip.
• Turn 2. Focus action to restack AdvO. (BB-8 maybe).
• Repeat . That's not that terrible once I type it out. An Evade and a TL/Boost every other turn, but every other turn is wicked predictable. It's almost like a weaker Corran, where you're alternating big turns with weak turns.

Compare to Intensity/PT/BB-8

• Turn 1a. BB-8/Intensity an Evade, Action to Focus. Spend the Evade for results. Spend the focus to flip.
• Turn 1b. BB-8/Intensity to Focus, Action to TL or Boost. Spend the focus to flip.
• Repeat every turn , with the option to Boost for a Focus after a K-Turn or T-Roll, and to still BB-8 the next turn. I think I'd prefer to be consistently strong across multiple turns.

or VI/AdvO (and choice of BB-8/R2-D2).

• Turn 1. AdvO Stacked. Action on TL or Boost. Regain a shield or do a Barrel Roll.
• Repeat every turn , and always have a focus after a K-Turn or T-Roll . Plus, you've gained 1 or 2 PS.

Great breakdown. I've emboldened a part that can't be overstated, because getting that token on a red maneuver is not easy to do with Intensity. You have to have a boost lane available and have it make sense.

51 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I've flown Plot Armor. With that, you generally don't spend the evade unless you'll end shieldless, which makes sense with regen and you're always spending on on defense. With this, if you're taking shots and have to spend any tokens, then either Advanced Optics sits empty or Intensity can't be refreshed. That's every turn.

The benefit of primed thrusters Poe is being stressproof. AO shares that. The benefit of Intensity Com Relay bb8 poe was the ability to have a focus, evade and target lock up at once on the first round of shooting. Longer if you’re lucky or ignored. BB8 poe spends evades a lot, but Com Relay is still worth it as you can bank an unused token and as soon as you have you go back to target locking.

R2D2 or PT pretty much ties you to never target locking, which kills your damage output.

AO combines all the methodology, you’re always using full mods to attack and have full mods for defence on your first combat round (or if you run and reset). AO gives you the stressproofing of PT. and the ability to freely spend evades removes the need for R2D2.

Like I said, I see no need to fly it any differently from my BB8 Intensity Com Relay build which for me is the best formy flying style.

I’ve long argued there is no premier build for Poe, so you may as well fly him how it works for you. I’m good with my build

15 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

ive long argued there is no premier build for Poe, so you may as well fly him how it works for you. I’m good with my build

Oh, I totally agree! Sorry if it seemed like I was arguing against that. I was just talking about why I wanted to move away from Intensity.

58 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I guess if you play Poe to run most of the time, Intensity/AO could be played like a cheaper Poetensity, but isn't that bad? Don't you want your point fortress to be worth more, not less?

I definitely agree except with a Falcon. They are expensive to build efficiently, and an extra point to spend can be very helpful!

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Oh, I totally agree! Sorry if it seemed like I was arguing against that.

Not at all

we we seem to fly a lot of the same stuff so I’m grateful for feedback and always interested to read alternate builds

Just now, Estarriol said:

Not at all

we we seem to fly a lot of the same stuff so I’m grateful for feedback and always interested to read alternate builds

Hah, true. Pretty much everything I run will have Poe in it for the foreseeable future!

17 hours ago, Estarriol said:

The benefit of primed thrusters Poe is being stressproof. AO shares that. The benefit of Intensity Com Relay bb8 poe was the ability to have a focus, evade and target lock up at once on the first round of shooting. Longer if you’re lucky or ignored. BB8 poe spends evades a lot, but Com Relay is still worth it as you can bank an unused token and as soon as you have you go back to target locking.

R2D2 or PT pretty much ties you to never target locking, which kills your damage output.

AO combines all the methodology, you’re always using full mods to attack and have full mods for defence on your first combat round (or if you run and reset). AO gives you the stressproofing of PT. and the ability to freely spend evades removes the need for R2D2.

Like I said, I see no need to fly it any differently from my BB8 Intensity Com Relay build which for me is the best formy flying style.

I’ve long argued there is no premier build for Poe, so you may as well fly him how it works for you. I’m good with my build

I think the biggest draw of Advanced Optics for me is the ability to get perma-focused without using your elite upgrade; primarily to enable a PS11 ship with Black One - giving you either shield regeneration & 1 target lock breaker or BB-8 for two target lock breakers. The downside is losing access to evade tokens, which means if someone does get a shot off, it's going to hurt .

I guess it depends on what you're used to facing; if the three musketeers pelting you with harpoons isn't an issue, then it's probably not worth the (sizeable!) investment.

Why isnt Rey/Poe a thing? Because she's already with Finn...

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

Why isnt Rey/Poe a thing? Because she's already with Finn...

You mean he is already with Finn...

39 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Poe Dameron — T-70 X-Wing	31
Veteran Instincts	1
R2-D2	4
Advanced Optics	2
Autothrusters	2
Ship Total: 40
Rey — YT-1300	45
Veteran Instincts	1
Kanan Jarrus	3
Finn	5
Glitterstim	2
Smuggling Compartment	0
Countermeasures	3
Millennium Falcon (TFA)	1
Ship Total: 60

I like the cut of your jib!

I might consider dropping to BB8 and Black One and giving Rey a scavenger crane.

2 hours ago, ryfterek said:

You mean he is already with Finn...

46 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Poe Dameron — T-70 X-Wing	31
Veteran Instincts	1
R2-D2	4
Advanced Optics	2
Autothrusters	2
Ship Total: 40
Rey — YT-1300	45
Veteran Instincts	1
Kanan Jarrus	3
Finn	5
Glitterstim	2
Smuggling Compartment	0
Countermeasures	3
Millennium Falcon (TFA)	1
Ship Total: 60

I like it, just think the title is too valuable to drop at only 1 point. This is my regen version...

Poe Dameron (31)
Veteran Instincts (1)
R2-D2 (4)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Rey (45)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Finn (5)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

There is no idea to replace Rey for Han?

On 12/7/2017 at 1:43 PM, gennataos said:

I like it, just think the title is too valuable to drop at only 1 point. This is my regen version...

Poe Dameron (31)
Veteran Instincts (1)
R2-D2 (4)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Rey (45)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Finn (5)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

My version of your version!

Poe Dameron (33)
Veteran Instincts (1)
R2-D2 (4)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Rey (45)
Determination (1)
Finn (5)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

1 hour ago, ImperialEmperor said:

There is no idea to replace Rey for Han?

Nah. I’ve flown him and find the style boring. To each their own, though.

Style?

how about win rate? Which is more powerfull?

POE-KE-HAN

99 points

22 hours ago, ImperialEmperor said:

Style?

how about win rate? Which is more powerfull?

Han plays more as a kiting ship, dodging arcs, and doesn't have the same damage potential as Rey. Rey can be more of a bully, which I like. I'm not sure about win rate or what is more powerful. I'm sure different matchups would benefit each build.

7 hours ago, YourHucklebrry said:

POE-KE-HAN

99 points

57 points

Han Solo

11

Veteran Instincts (1)

C-3PO (3)

Rey (2)

Millennium Falcon (Evade Version) (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

42 points

Poe Dameron (PS8 Version)

8

Black One (1)

R2-D2 (4)

Advanced Optics (2)

Lone Wolf (2)

Autothrusters (2)

Don't worry, Rey's still in there! A light bid to hopefully keep Han moving after Alpha/Ace lists outside of Thweek. Rounded out with a Lone Wolf, regen-Poe that I think is going to be a very tough nut to crack with Advanced Optics. I used to love running Luke with LW, R2D2 and Vectored Thrusters with a Fat Turret, this Poe takes that to another level.

I don't think the title will do much for Poe at PS8, but...sure, might as well if you have the points. To each their own, but like I said above, this isn't my preferred style. And it's not Rey/Poe!

@gennataos I find the title isn't as much about PS as it is about sustained TLs like OL, FCS, and LRS. Either way, not integral to the list. I posted a Rey/Poe build on the previous page that I think would work well, particularly against alpha lists. Typical bully Rey with BB-8 Poe, both playing the PS game at PS 10. Only thing I'm not sure about is Glitterstims v. Scavenger Crane on Rey, leaning to the former the more I think about it.

19 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

@gennataos I find the title isn't as much about PS as it is about sustained TLs like OL, FCS, and LRS. Either way, not integral to the list. I posted a Rey/Poe build on the previous page that I think would work well, particularly against alpha lists. Typical bully Rey with BB-8 Poe, both playing the PS game at PS 10. Only thing I'm not sure about is Glitterstims v. Scavenger Crane on Rey, leaning to the former the more I think about it.

Yeah, I like that build as well and used to run CM/SC. I really like them being able to move at the same PS, that's always a boon for a list. I've been experimenting with Engine because I think with good range control, Rey can limit opportunities to get off ordnance and hopefully Poe can do work pulling off target locks.

Necro'ed!

Adepticon is a few short days away, and I know I'm running this at least in the Thursday Hyperspace. I've gotten a decent amount of reps in with it and it does really well. I really didn't expect Expertise to make up for the lower PS on both Poe and Rey (I usually run them at PS11/PS10), but it sure seems to be the case. Against lower PS, it's just a flat out better version of the list. It does struggle against lists I'd expect it to (mostly higher PS stuff), but given that my VI version didn't have room for a bid, I couldn't rely on that being all that helpful. For those that care, I'll let you know how things go!

LFDJ (the meta)!

Poe Dameron (31)
Trick Shot (0)
BB-8 (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Rey (45)
Expertise (4)
Finn (5)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This is pretty much the build to go with IMO. If I wasn't sold on Rey/Nym I would run it.