25 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

Based on what? I can tell you for sure, that even before X-Wing 40k was not the most widely played game at my LGS. If we talk about sales, then yes 40k sold the most models but that isn't the same as most played ruleset.

GW has the advantage of being the first mainstream mini company out there, and had very little competition until about 10 years ago or so. So calling them most widely played ruleset means about as much as saying the Superbowl is the Worldwide Football championship. When it's the only game in town of course it's the most widely used.

But it was only a matter of time until something unseated 40k, it's just that FFG discovered the perfect storm of factors with X-Wing.

I know a lot of people that hated the 40K ruleset but kept buying models for it because they liked the look and hoped that in the next version they would like it again, but even talking to many 40k players they aren't fans but keep playing becuase of the 2-10k they have invested in it.

24 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

Based on what? I can tell you for sure, that even before X-Wing 40k was not the most widely played game at my LGS. If we talk about sales, then yes 40k sold the most models but that isn't the same as most played ruleset.

GW has the advantage of being the first mainstream mini company out there, and had very little competition until about 10 years ago or so. So calling them most widely played ruleset means about as much as saying the Superbowl is the Worldwide Football championship. When it's the only game in town of course it's the most widely used.

But it was only a matter of time until something unseated 40k, it's just that FFG discovered the perfect storm of factors with X-Wing.

Based on my experience, I suppose. For the cons that I've attended, and the LGSs I've visited, 40k is always the biggest event, by a lot.

I agree with what you're saying too. I defected from 40k as soon as I started playing X wing. Everything about it is just better.

I seem to remember a US-Euro divide around 40k and Fantasy, with 40k massively played in the US and a more balanced following in Europe. Now both are going down anyway...

49 minutes ago, jek said:

but even talking to many 40k players they aren't fans but keep playing becuase of the 2-10k they have invested in it.

I don't want to derail this too much more but, at this point I think talking about preordering a game that's already out...

40k is a lot like a codependent relationship, you know you should walk away, you know it's not good for you... But you keep hoping next time it will truly be different and you've invested so much into it, it's hard to walk away.

Myself I still play some Kill Team stuff, I got the Deathwatch:Kill Team box set that was a hybrid board/tabletop game with Deathwatch and genestealer cult models. I'm hoping to start a Kill Team narrative campaign at my LGS next month, based on the MiniWargaming.net rule set.

But IME anyway 40k has never been a ruleset anyone actually loved to play. They played it because it was the only game in town or they invested $2,000 in it, or they really liked the fluff. But the ruleset is, to a point always has been and likely always will be one of the worse rulesets out there.

Just about every other game I've played is better in terms of rules and balance, with very few if any cases of that killer list that if you win the first turn you won the game. Let's not even talk about codex creep and how last codex models are bad this time so you have to buy another 1,000 points to make your list work again...

But the real point is that while not everyone is going to like FFG's packaging methods, I don't believe it's going to have a huge impact on how well the game sells. Especially considering there will be no need to buy cross faction units for upgrades. So while you may need to buy a unit you may not especially want, it will at least be usable in your army, unlike X-Wing where you had to buy A-Wings to get a card for your Tie Interceptor.

That said and to be fair... Most X-Wing players were going to buy 4 of each of those packs anyway, so it's not like it was some huge burden and people had to spend hundreds of dollars on stuff they didn't even want.

12 hours ago, Taki said:

By the same token, if I'm using descent figures, I've already supported ffg and may like those models better

As long as you own the correct dials, trays, and cards, and there's no way I'll confuse your figure at a glance (really the biggest issue).

It's more than just the investment, I like the 40K universe and it's miniatures and with friends that don't do powergaming you still can have fun.
Same for WHF I really liked the Old World and it's races and background.