Ok this may be a bit convoluted but here goes ... I was playing an eAckbar Hired Gun Hired Gun deck against a Rey Qui Gonn deck. I was winning and had 2 damage left to do on Rey. My hired guns were down. My opponent played a holdout blaster on Rey and thereby ran out of cards which should have been the trigger to kill Rey. However my opponent insisted that my ability to kill Rey was at the end of the queue of his ambush actions which allowed him to roll out Rey and kill Ackbar. He then insisted he had won and didn't have to take damage on Rey as Ackbar was now dead. I felt at best it was a draw. I even wondered if my trigger ability interrupted his queue and won me the game. This was a tournament game and the judge ruled it a draw. What is the answer here?

It's a difficult one because both abilities have the 'after' keyword in them. Having had a quick read of the rules I would say Rey's ability would trigger first, allowing him to take a further action, then Ackbar's ability as it was the Rey player whose action triggered the after abilities so they get to resolve their after ability first. The Ambush action would come last as it is an action and not an after ability. Therefore you should have dealt the damage before your opponent used his ambush action to resolve his die.

Who controlled the battle field? If it's similar triggers the one who has it, decides. Both are after, and both are hit at the same time.

I think you should have won.

Their first action of playing that upgrade puts three triggers in the queue that need to resolve in order to complete that action. Check out this answer from Luckas in the Jango/Rey/Ambush thread. It puts a pretty good framework out there.

Now matter the order the abilities entered the queue, they should have all completely resolved before they start taking those additional actions.

Having had a better read through the updated rules I would agree with Hujoe Bigs and that whoever controls the battlefield would dictate the order in which the triggered abilities would occur. I still say that the holdout blasters ambush ability would still come at the end of the queue though as ambush grants an extra action not a specific ability.

So controller of the battlefield would decide which ability triggers first, due to the timing of the two lining up in this instance.

But regardless which triggers first, Ackbar's ability will resolve before the opponent gets to utilize the created actions. The generation of the actions are the ability, the use of them is not.

In the same way you can have multiple banked action, activate a character, and gave Jango trigger and activate. Just because you still have actions remaining to be used created by previously resolved anilities, Jango still rolls immediately after an activation.

Ackbar still pings you for two no matter how many actions get created by playing the last card.

Scottie's right. BTW queue is not for actions: RR.p16: "The queue is an imaginary line that all game effects and abilities enter and leave in chronological order when triggered, based on a “first in, first out” principle."

"Ambush" is s keyword, "keywords" are shorthands for abilities (RRG pg. 16)

In the case of abilities simultaneously-triggered for both players, the player who controls the battlefield decides the order in which they resolve (RRG pg. 17)

Ambush resolves and gives you another action but you don't take that action untill all other abilities from the queue resolve and here comes Ackbar's ability that kills Rey.

I'm still not completely following the different interpretations here. Can someone list the queue of action effects in order for me?

Is it Play Holdout Blaster on Rey, Rey Ability, Ackbar's ability (As opponent discarded last card) then Holdout's Ambush?

My opponent insisted it was his Holdout Ambush ability (he used it to roll out Rey) then Rey's ability (He resolved die to kill my Ackbar).

Judge said he decided as it was his battlefield but I felt it wasn't a simultaneous trigger. I felt Rey's ability should be first (to roll out) but then my ability should have come before his extra turn to kill me. So in short Ackbar should have killed Rey before he could resolve.

I felt quite cheated of the opportunity to compete in the final at the time but didn't feel I could argue the judge down as there was nothing online and no Ackbar errata.

It doesn't matter the order. The end result will be the same. He gains two actions and Ackbar's ability resolves, doing 2 damage.

Ackbar's ability will resolve before he gets to take the actions granted by Rey's ability and Ambush, no matter how they fall in the queue. It's the granting of actions that is in the queue, not the taking of actions.

The creation of the action is the ability. Not the use of that action.

So let's say he controls the battleground.

Plays Holdout Blaster. There are now 3 after abilities attempting to trigger in that space. He decides to resolve Ambush first, he gains an action. He now has Rey resolve, he gains another action. He now has two banked actions that exist outside the queue waiting to be used. Now Ackbar resolves killing him and ending the game.

You do not put Ackbar on hold while you wait for the actions to be taken, just like you don't put Jango on hold.

42 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

The creation of the action is the ability. Not the use of that action.

where in the RRG does it say this? I can't find any text anywhere in the rules or on a card that says "After... you may create an action"

what it does say is: "When a triggered ability meets its trigger condition, the ability resolves."

42 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

Plays Holdout Blaster. There are now 3 after abilities attempting to trigger in that space.

yes, those are:

1. Ambush: take an action

2. Rey's ability: take an action

3. Ackbar's ability: deal 2 damage

in this case the player who controls the battlefield decides the order in which these will occur

I see a lot of posts referring to the "gaining" of an action - I also don't recall seeing any text anywhere in the rules or on a card that reads "you may gain an action", e.g. Rey's ability is ->

" After you play an upgrade on this character, you may take one additional action."

3 minutes ago, grokssilk said:

I see a lot of posts referring to the "gaining" of an action - I also don't recall seeing any text anywhere in the rules or on a card that reads "you may gain an action", e.g. Rey's ability is ->

" After you play an upgrade on this character, you may take one additional action."

I was on that side of the fence too because I read it the same way, but Luckas ruled it the other way, check out the thread I linked earlier, it's the same basic situation, just with Jango instead of Ackbar.

9 minutes ago, grokssilk said:

where in the RRG does it say this? I can't find any text anywhere in the rules or on a card that says "After... you may create an action"

what it does say is: "When a triggered ability meets its trigger condition, the ability resolves."

yes, those are:

1. Ambush: take an action

2. Rey's ability: take an action

3. Ackbar's ability: deal 2 damage

in this case the player who controls the battlefield decides the order in which these will occur

That is not in keeping with rulings we've already been given by the games designer in similar topics.

That was already linked and referenced by another poster earlier in the thread.

Again the ability is the generation of the action, not the use of it.

5 minutes ago, netherspirit1982 said:

I was on that side of the fence too because I read it the same way, but Luckas ruled it the other way, check out the thread I linked earlier, it's the same basic situation, just with Jango instead of Ackbar.

ah I hadn't checked the link yet will do that now, thank you!

Look at this a different way. If the holdout blaster was played on a character that didn't have a trigger ability but that was the last card in that players hand, would that trigger ackbars ability first before the ambush ( extra action) could be taken? I think it would.

"This is a great question and hopefully I can resolve the current ambiguity. The intent is that the effects which create the actions do enter the queue, but the actions exist outside of the queue once created, waiting for the current action to resolve. Rules Reference p. 13: "When a player is allowed to take additional actions on their
turn, they must immediately take them following the resolution
of the current action..."

So you play the Holdout Blaster on Rey, and then you trigger and resolve the Ambush ability and Rey's ability to gain two additional actions. This completes the current action, so you may resolve the first extra action to activate Rey. As part of this action, Jango's ability meets its trigger condition and is added to the queue. Since the other extra action exists outside the queue, waiting for the current action to complete, Jango's ability resolves and he rolls in his dice. Then the Rey player can spend the second additional action.

I will make sure that this is clear in the next update of the Rules Reference. May the Force be with you."

RAW, Grokssilk would be absolutely correct.

The rules state that Ambush and Rey let you "Take an action", which would go into the queue and resolve before Ackbar would resolve (if the controller of the battlefield ordered them that way). That said, Luckas did specify that this was not the intent, and that the actions are created for use after the current action, despite all the wording in the printed rules. So...looks like a rules adjustment is needed in the future, for additional clarity. In the mean time, we do as Luckas says.

well ****, Lukas's ruling explains it!

1. additional actions granted by abilities do indeed seem as though they are meant to be "gained" / "generated"

2. generated actions exist "outside the queue" (of the current action), and are presumably meant to be taken in the order they were generated

sound right?

I'm glad I stumbled across this thread, thank you everybody for the discussion! I was actively building a deck that was meant to take advantage of this sort of ambush / action / queue interplay, and having this clarified is invaluable

so actually in preparation for Worlds...

do we know if rulings given to us by Lukas outside of the published rules will be considered legal interpretations?

Considering Lukas will likely be head judge. High.

It really does help to think of actions as a resource, rather than a window.