Boarding Troopers - When you reveal a command, you may discard a [squadron] dial or token and this card to choose 1 enemy ship at close range. Look at its facedown damage cards and flip a number of them faceup up to you engineering value (one at a time).

#1) Do you only grab the cards once, or do you look at all facedown cards after each flip.

#1a) So would the crit that destroys all shields on the side with the most remaining be available to flip again? It is facedown after resolution. Or any critical hit that flips facedown after being resolved

#1b) Does the card that says suffer additional facedown card then allow the New facedown card to be triggered

Its on the List to be FAQ'd already.

Aye, but I wanted to get a general impression from the forum. Locally, I'll use the least powerful interpretation until ruled itherwise. So whatever you see when you first start the proc is what you work from and each card only once.

There was a bit of a discussion forming in the Boarding Actions Thread on the main page, but really, its far too early to hazard guesses.

Yeah, this one'll have to wait until the next FAQ.

Or with some luck, until the final version of the cards is released.

Otherwise it can happen like with Sato (and I think it happened before too), that the first version didn't specified the timing so there was a discussion here to when the "replace" has to take place, but then in the final version the timing was specified in the upgrade, so, no doubts

I'm going to take a guess and say no, you cannot flip the same card multiple times. The card says you look at the facedown cards and flip them one at a time. Therefore, I say you flip them once, pick a card, resolve it, and continue from the stack currently in your hand.

My assumption is you grab the pile and look once at the cards, instead of during the entire effect. That way you can't flip a structural, return it to the pile and flip it again. Also, what would you do with the extra cards dealt via structural? Do you get to look at them too?

To get really technical, this is a "when" trigger that lets you look at the cards. To flip a structural up and resolve it, you would need to trigger the "when" condition again to look at the face down cards.

I have no idea if I'm right.

That is the interpretation I lean to, and at this point will be enforcing at my events.

Because it then generates the same concept as the Boarding Teams not flipping the same defense token twice.

Hmm I just figured Boarding Teams couldn't pick the same defense token because you pick them all at the same time. It doesn't specify one at a time, which I suppose is not important for the timing of crits.

I like the consistency that they both should not be able to pick the same thing multiple times.

We don't even have a current FAQ for wave 5, and you start with questions about wave 6 .

In 6 month the wave 6 will come out. and 4-5 month later you will have the FAQ for your question.
Anything else will lead to another 20 pages with no result in the end .

But i am as well with team sickle about it.

54 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I'm going to take a guess and say no, you cannot flip the same card multiple times. The card says you look at the facedown cards and flip them one at a time. Therefore, I say you flip them once, pick a card, resolve it, and continue from the stack currently in your hand.

My assumption is you grab the pile and look once at the cards, instead of during the entire effect. That way you can't flip a structural, return it to the pile and flip it again. Also, what would you do with the extra cards dealt via structural? Do you get to look at them too?

To get really technical, this is a "when" trigger that lets you look at the cards. To flip a structural up and resolve it, you would need to trigger the "when" condition again to look at the face down cards.

I have no idea if I'm right.

I'd go with that version as well.

Are there rules for how the facedown damage cards on a ship or meant to be ordered outside of this instance?

Which creates questions of if that order can be changed? Would you be able to "stack the deck" when you look at the cards for this or would you have to remember where the worst ones were on top of the pile?

5 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I'd go with that version as well.

Are there rules for how the facedown damage cards on a ship or meant to be ordered outside of this instance?

Which creates questions of if that order can be changed? Would you be able to "stack the deck" when you look at the cards for this or would you have to remember where the worst ones were on top of the pile?

I think the intent is you flip a card and resolve it immediately, and then proceed to resolve another after you see the effects of the first one. You don't create a stack.

4 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I think the intent is you flip a card and resolve it immediately, and then proceed to resolve another after you see the effects of the first one. You don't create a stack.

Sure. I'm asking whether you could make a stack. You obviously get to select which ones get turned face-up. You'll obviously want to be sure to choose the most damaging ones hence the getting to look at them.

Aren't there critical effects that flip already dealt damage cards? If so then whether or not you can order the cards after having looked at them becomes somewhat important. This is also would makes me ask about what the rules for order of damage cards dealt to a ship is.

If the boarding effect is meant to allow you to pick the worst ones but they can be randomized before you've flipped all you're entitled to flip and you don't get to look at them again (per your argument which I agree with) then wouldn't have been easier to just have the effect be not look and flip randomly or would that just make this question of "Double-flipping" matter all the more?

1 minute ago, Frimmel said:

Sure. I'm asking whether you could make a stack. You obviously get to select which ones get turned face-up. You'll obviously want to be sure to choose the most damaging ones hence the getting to look at them.

Aren't there critical effects that flip already dealt damage cards? If so then whether or not you can order the cards after having looked at them becomes somewhat important. This is also would makes me ask about what the rules for order of damage cards dealt to a ship is.

If the boarding effect is meant to allow you to pick the worst ones but they can be randomized before you've flipped all you're entitled to flip and you don't get to look at them again (per your argument which I agree with) then wouldn't have been easier to just have the effect be not look and flip randomly or would that just make this question of "Double-flipping" matter all the more?

So in regards to Boarding, you continue to look at the stack initially there. So you flip 5 cards and pick one, resolve it. You still look at the other 4 to pick what's next, but you don't add the other card(s) back to the pile when you initially looked.

Once you resolve the boarding engineers, I don't think you can order the face down cards so you know what to flip up next time. That seems kinda....cheaty like. So you can do boarding engineers, order the damage cards and then resolve a Precision Strike effect to "randomly" flip the card you put 4th down from the top, or 3rd from the right.

I hope this answers your question

More or less. Either way I'd accept what you outline as the way to resolve the thing.

13 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

So in regards to Boarding, you continue to look at the stack initially there. So you flip 5 cards and pick one, resolve it. You still look at the other 4 to pick what's next, but you don't add the other card(s) back to the pile when you initially looked.

Once you resolve the boarding engineers, I don't think you can order the face down cards so you know what to flip up next time. That seems kinda....cheaty like. So you can do boarding engineers, order the damage cards and then resolve a Precision Strike effect to "randomly" flip the card you put 4th down from the top, or 3rd from the right.

I hope this answers your question

Well, it shouldn't matter if you've seen the Order of the Cards before or not.

Precision Strike's flipped card must be determined randomly ... By whatever method you use, random is the result, rather than pick-with-knowledge.

Email Guidance even said that. "Pick up the cards, shuffle them, then choose one at random."

So you may know all of what is there if you've previously looked... But you won't get to pick anything but randomly unless you're resolving Boarding Engineers from another platform... I think. I'm pretty sure all of the other methods to do that so far (ie, precision strike) are "Randomly" choose.

So what happens if you choose to flip a structural damage? The additional card dealt from that effect ought to be added to the pile, I should think, and then structural damage gets flipped back facedown.

I can see the argument for not flipping structural damage again, but I would argue that you should be able to flip the other card that was dealt because it has been added to the stack of facedown damage on your opponent's ship... but then hasn't the card that's been flipped back facedown also been added back to the stack?

I suppose it depends on whether you interpret the timing of card flips to be "choose and flip/resolve one at a time" (can choose structural 4 times in a row) or "choose cards" and then "flip the chosen one at a time" (can't choose any additional cards added through structural). The way it's worded, it is open to both interpretations.

37 minutes ago, Parkdaddy said:

So what happens if you choose to flip a structural damage? The additional card dealt from that effect ought to be added to the pile, I should think, and then structural damage gets flipped back facedown.

I can see the argument for not flipping structural damage again, but I would argue that you should be able to flip the other card that was dealt because it has been added to the stack of facedown damage on your opponent's ship... but then hasn't the card that's been flipped back facedown also been added back to the stack?

I suppose it depends on whether you interpret the timing of card flips to be "choose and flip/resolve one at a time" (can choose structural 4 times in a row) or "choose cards" and then "flip the chosen one at a time" (can't choose any additional cards added through structural). The way it's worded, it is open to both interpretations.

I think the additional card is not added to the ones you can flip.

Could you imagine dropping 4 additional damage to a ship because you flip structural 4 times? All for 3 points? A Raider could deal on average 5.25 damage with a double arc AND 2 free damage from boarding eningeers, so long as a structural is already on the target, which means it starts at 2 damage.

To me that seems pretty excessive for a 3 point upgrade.

But you're right, it could go either way.

4 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

To me that seems pretty excessive for a 3 point upgrade.

3 points is cheap, but I think it's made up for with the opportunity cost. No gunnery teams/ordnance experts, and no offensive retrofits. It also takes the command or discards itself, so that is a major downside.

Additionally, this upgrade should work much better against ships with higher hull (potentially more cards to choose from)-thus it gains another downside in being niche and not all that useful against swarm lists. Are you really going to give up multiple commands to use boarding actions against multiple small ships, or are you wanting to one-shot them and use your commands?

so I think the downsides and very specific conditions of the upgrade would make for an acceptable balance