2 hours ago, SkyWarp said:What about vectored thrusters instead of EU?
If you use your action to boost with EU or barrel roll with VT then you won't have it to Focus to set up the R4 into Synced Turret combo. If you already have something in arc target locked then yeah sure, VT or Engine could be helpful but I don't expect anyone to make it that easy for me.
2 hours ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:I don't understand it either. New/casual players will ask for squad advice and when the advice they're given is to alter their list or fly something more competitive they don't want to hear it.
Okay, your custom special snowflake Just For Fun(tm) build has a Punisher in it. Neat. I don't know what you want to me to say about it if you're not going to take any criticism or advice.
Heychadwick, I think Synched Turret may have some niche applications in a tournament context. But if you're not discussing tournaments and you're Playing For Fun, Not To Win(tm) then what does it matter?
May as well fly Blaster Turret, after all you're Playing For Fun(tm).
Also, the 2 best episodes of Shuttle Tydirium were the first 2 where you spent the whole time complaining. Hearing your average, every day non-worlds traveling player talk about X-Wing that same way I did was refreshing. It was like an actual discussion you'd have at the FLGS instead of some podcast wack offs rambling for 20 minutes before talking about X-Wing and making awful jokes.
Maybe they are asking for advice on how to use the cards they want to use in the best way? If I were asking that i would be sure to phrase it like that, but even when I do so I still get people suggesting I switch out the card I'm trying to use for something that is better. That is a little frustrating, and I can see how it would be more than a little frustrating for some people!
Sometimes people just want to group-brainstorm without someone decrying the basic idea! They want to fly an upgrade or pilot because they think its cool, and would like to figure out the best way to do so within the parameters they set. Its the same when someone is discussing competitive builds, the parameters are just different is all. If you someone doesn't want to participate in certain conversation they don't have to! Its all text, you can just stop reading and hit the back button!
On 2017-05-16 at 3:19 AM, Embir82 said:I don't understand reason behind your statement. What is the point of discussion if from the get go you announce that you are not interested in certain point of view?
As it stands tournament evaluation is the most honest and substantive - it tells if given upgrade is objectively good or not.
Unless you want to hear some dumb fluff farting - but then there is no point participating in this thread.
No!
"tournament evaluation is the most honest and substantive - it tells if given upgrade is objectively good or not"
in a 100/6 setting.
Take e.g. Soontir Fel some waves ago. He was literally ruling the 100/6 meta. But once you fielded 150+pts, Epic or even just 100pts in FFG's OFFICIAL missions Soontir Fel pretty fast became Soontir Fail. Because too many arcs to dodge, or him fancy smancy skirting and curving round ("hah, I am the king of Arc Dodgers, you never hit me"), dealing out some damage, but loosing cause the attackers in the meantime obliterad the objective, not caring about Fel doing some scratches in their paintjob, or downing one attacker from afar.
"Heychadwick, I think Synched Turret may have some niche applications in a tournament context. But if you're not discussing tournaments and you're Playing For Fun, Not To Win(tm) then what does it matter?
May as well fly Blaster Turret, after all you're Playing For Fun(tm)."
No. See also above, and: Just that someone wants to play e.g. FFG' s OFFICIAL missions that does not mean that that person suddenly only wants to take Expose, Blaster turret and other really worthless stuff. But other stuff which is not broken (meaning OP) in 100/6 format might really shine somewhere else. Thus worthy discussion. Cause the 100/6 hardcore tournament people are not the only ones playing X-wing or visiting these forums.
For that matter, people's 'objective assessment' might well have missed something.
If you start not with "is this card good?" but "how do I use this card?" you're far more likely to find a less obvious combination that makes a card effective.
50 minutes ago, Managarmr said:Take e.g. Soontir Fel some waves ago. He was literally ruling the 100/6 meta. But once you fielded 150+pts, Epic or even just 100pts in FFG's OFFICIAL missions Soontir Fel pretty fast became Soontir Fail. Because too many arcs to dodge, or him fancy smancy skirting and curving round ("hah, I am the king of Arc Dodgers, you never hit me"), dealing out some damage, but loosing cause the attackers in the meantime obliterad the objective, not caring about Fel doing some scratches in their paintjob, or downing one attacker from afar.
Definitely. We had an Epic game night kit (well, it was a full day, as you might imagine) a while ago, and we had one guy essentially bring a 300 point list that was 3 tournament lists bolted together. Not only did he not win a single game, he didn't come close.
55 minutes ago, Managarmr said:No!
"tournament evaluation is the most honest and substantive - it tells if given upgrade is objectively good or not"
in a 100/6 setting.
Take e.g. Soontir Fel some waves ago. He was literally ruling the 100/6 meta. But once you fielded 150+pts, Epic or even just 100pts in FFG's OFFICIAL missions Soontir Fel pretty fast became Soontir Fail. Because too many arcs to dodge, or him fancy smancy skirting and curving round ("hah, I am the king of Arc Dodgers, you never hit me"), dealing out some damage, but loosing cause the attackers in the meantime obliterad the objective, not caring about Fel doing some scratches in their paintjob, or downing one attacker from afar.
"Heychadwick, I think Synched Turret may have some niche applications in a tournament context. But if you're not discussing tournaments and you're Playing For Fun, Not To Win(tm) then what does it matter?
May as well fly Blaster Turret, after all you're Playing For Fun(tm)."
No. See also above, and: Just that someone wants to play e.g. FFG' s OFFICIAL missions that does not mean that that person suddenly only wants to take Expose, Blaster turret and other really worthless stuff. But other stuff which is not broken (meaning OP) in 100/6 format might really shine somewhere else. Thus worthy discussion. Cause the 100/6 hardcore tournament people are not the only ones playing X-wing or visiting these forums.
The standard, 100/6 format is the only one that matters for discussions because it's the only format that's regularly played.
When there are missions being played regularly in tournaments (and even just casually), then it will be relevant to constantly remind everyone that there exists other game types besides the standard 100/6 format.
Because until then, it doesn't matter that Soontir is great in 100/6 and awful in missions. No one plays those, let alone competitively.
Has anyone discussed Targeting Synchroniser with it?
Quickdraw, Pick a 0-1pt EPT(Draw Their Fire, VI, Adaptable, Score Settle, Crack Shot), FCS, LWF, Targeting Sync
3x Sienar Specialist with Synced Turret
I flew it the other day on Kestal to see what I thought. You can't theorycraft everything. You do have to fly stuff. It's really really hard to use. Picking up Target Lock to shoot is so dangerous. Not having a Focus for defence is not great. Not being able to shoot very well until you have a TL and being locked into 1 target with your Turret (seriously the strength of turrets is versatility and always shooting). All of these things were bad. Really bad. So you need a way to mitigate it somehow.
Targeting Sync or Deadeye seem like the best options right now.
2 hours ago, DodgingArcs said:Has anyone discussed Targeting Synchroniser with it?
Quickdraw, Pick a 0-1pt EPT(Draw Their Fire, VI, Adaptable, Score Settle, Crack Shot), FCS, LWF, Targeting Sync
3x Sienar Specialist with Synced Turret
I flew it the other day on Kestal to see what I thought. You can't theorycraft everything. You do have to fly stuff. It's really really hard to use. Picking up Target Lock to shoot is so dangerous. Not having a Focus for defence is not great. Not being able to shoot very well until you have a TL and being locked into 1 target with your Turret (seriously the strength of turrets is versatility and always shooting). All of these things were bad. Really bad. So you need a way to mitigate it somehow.
Targeting Sync or Deadeye seem like the best options right now.
If you want a cheap Targeting Synchroniser buddy, then Epsilon Ace is one of the best bets; he's cheap and expendable but a great 'buddy' for target lock hungry squadmates.
But yes, equally, Fire Control System/Targeting Synchroniser is a nice party piece for TIE/sf and creates a sort of 'target lock mindlink' that is a real bugger to deal with!
Oups, brainfart. Sorry.
Edited by hasloSee Deadeye Double Edge with Synced turret can work. Throw Unguided rockets on him and there you go. Pair him with some one that gives out focus and a targeting synchronizer (Stridan with systems and Hux comes to mind) and he is not that bad. Kestal is expensive to use but i have had fun with her and Rage. Pair her with an IR carrier and a Focus generator (Yorr works well with IR and Hux, or stridan with IR and Hux) and she can hit pretty hard.
I love it with Deadeye on Hawks. Jan and others, saves you some points and takes away your range 1 donut.
As for the TLT fix, just make crits count as misses. TLT is now fixed.
23 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:I love it with Deadeye on Hawks. Jan and others, saves you some points and takes away your range 1 donut.
As for the TLT fix, just make crits count as misses. TLT is now fixed.
I do think this is the easiest FAQ fix to make, and it really does hamper the effectiveness of the TLT pretty significantly. Hope it happens.
13 hours ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:The standard, 100/6 format is the only one that matters for discussions because it's the only format that's regularly played.
Not in my dining room, sister.
On 7/23/2017 at 9:19 PM, SaltMaster 5000 said:I don't understand it either. New/casual players will ask for squad advice and when the advice they're given is to alter their list or fly something more competitive they don't want to hear it.
Okay, your custom special snowflake Just For Fun(tm) build has a Punisher in it. Neat. I don't know what you want to me to say about it if you're not going to take any criticism or advice.
Heychadwick, I think Synched Turret may have some niche applications in a tournament context. But if you're not discussing tournaments and you're Playing For Fun, Not To Win(tm) then what does it matter?
May as well fly Blaster Turret, after all you're Playing For Fun(tm).
On 7/24/2017 at 3:09 AM, SaltMaster 5000 said:The standard, 100/6 format is the only one that matters for discussions because it's the only format that's regularly played.
When there are missions being played regularly in tournaments (and even just casually), then it will be relevant to constantly remind everyone that there exists other game types besides the standard 100/6 format.Because until then, it doesn't matter that Soontir is great in 100/6 and awful in missions. No one plays those, let alone competitively.
Hi Saltmaster. I think there are two misconceptions you are running with when you made these posts. The first is that no one plays Missions or non-tournament games. They might not in your store, but that doesn't mean they aren't being played elsewhere. We have quite a few non-tournament folk in my local area that like to play non-meta games. I've been posting on these forums for a long time and I have communicated with quite a few people who play the same way. I've also heard from many people due to my podcast. I know there are many people out there that play the game different ways beyond tournament format. There are missions. There is Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. There are campaigns. There are just fun B-teams. Some just like to play janky stuff. It may not be the way you play and you might not see it at your local store...or at tournaments, but that doesn't mean that it's not a valid way with lots of people who play that way. There are those people who do come to these forums and want a valid discussion on aspects of the game that are perhaps not the most optimal tournament way to play the game.
As a side note, I've seen some people who play non-meta and have taken things into the meta and done well. Biophysical is someone I chatted with a lot about Tie Defenders before he did incredibly well on the tournament scene. Sometimes you see someone take something that the tournament crowd says is bad and finds a way to make it work. So, there is also value in discussing things outside of the perspective of the tournament gamer...even for tournament gamers.
The next misconception is about non-meta lists being " custom special snowflake Playing For Fun, Not To Win(tm) ". There are a number of things about your comments about this type of list that I don't think you understand. It's not that people who play non-meta lists don't want to win. There are a number of reasons why someone would want to play a non-meta list, but it doesn't mean they don't want to win.
On 7/23/2017 at 9:19 PM, SaltMaster 5000 said:Also, the 2 best episodes of Shuttle Tydirium were the first 2 where you spent the whole time complaining. Hearing your average, every day non-worlds traveling player talk about X-Wing that same way I did was refreshing. It was like an actual discussion you'd have at the FLGS instead of some podcast wack offs rambling for 20 minutes before talking about X-Wing and making awful jokes.
Thanks for that! I do appreciate it. I've also been told that those 2 episodes turned a lot of people off from the podcast, too. The hard core tournament types felt I did nothing but bash the way they play the game and wouldn't listen to more than those 2 episodes as they hated the podcast.
On an Agressor I think I'd rather use Unguided rockets, with it's superior cost, superior range, and the focus requirement is easier to pull off than the target lock one.
On anything else, I think I'd rather save points and use Autoblaster or a regular blaster turret.
24 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:On a Punisher I think I'd rather use Unguided rockets, with it's superior cost, superior range, and the focus requirement is easier to pull off than the target lock one.
On anything else, I think I'd rather save points and use Autoblaster or a regular blaster turret.
Do you mean on an Aggressor? Tie Punisher doesn't have a turret slot.
6 minutes ago, heychadwick said:Do you mean on an Aggressor? Tie Punisher doesn't have a turret slot.
I do.
I actually want to run a list with four aggressors, all using synced turret. Three will also have unguided rockets, and one will instead have 2 tracers (because who needs a PS bid?). All will of course have LW frame. The ability to get the locks in the action phase means these things are on par with X-wings as jousters, and are capable of turret combat. I think it will be fun.
Edit: I also quite like in HoTAC, where in our HoTAC Meta, Target locks are passed out like candy, TLT is banned, and people fly HWKs.
Edited by Do I need a UsernameOn 7/24/2017 at 0:09 AM, SaltMaster 5000 said:The standard, 100/6 format is the only one that matters for discussions because it's the only format that's regularly played.
When there are missions being played regularly in tournaments (and even just casually), then it will be relevant to constantly remind everyone that there exists other game types besides the standard 100/6 format.Because until then, it doesn't matter that Soontir is great in 100/6 and awful in missions. No one plays those, let alone competitively.
Since the game started, the majority of the games my group plays are at someone's home. I might play in a tournament every 6 months or so, but the others in my group aren't interested in tournaments at all. We have an X-Wing night every couple weeks with pizza and beer. Opinions that focus on pure tournament play aren't that relevant (or useful, frankly) to me or my group.
edit- I should add that I have found this thread very informative. I've built a few lists just after reading some of the ideas here, and I might not have done that otherwise.
Edited by elfholme