So far each wave after the first has introduced to us something new- Wave 2 was Rogue, Wave 3 was Fleet Support, Wave 4 was Experimental, Wave 5 was Fleet Command.

Wave 6 has brought us the two-slot upgrade, but when I looked at the reveal a second time I noticed a trend in them. They each had titles obscured or face down, the hammerhead had what appeared to be 4 ship cards and an extra stack of upgrades. It got me thinking, 'What do these ships have in common with each other that no other ships so far do, and could make for an interesting rule for Armada.'

Then it hit me that obviously both of these ships were stolen by the Phoenix Rebels in the show.

This leads me to theorize that the third non-unique hammerhead title is one that will allow the Imperials to run them, and the face down Quasar Fire Title is the Quasar Fire that let's a single copy be fielded by a Rebel player. Maybe that stack of 5 face down upgrades in the Hammerhead reveal and 2 un-pictured upgrade cards in the Quasar Fire reveal will be a set of unique cross faction upgrades they are saving for later as a surprise. Maybe that is also why the Hammerhead is shown with 4 ship cards.

Anyway, that is my theory and my evidence. Is it likely? Am I crazy? Would it be exciting if both these ships were cross-faction, or is it a mistake to blend factions putting us in a scenario where we could end up with some weird mirror match of Hammerheads and Quasar Fires with one being supported by X-Wings and the other by Tie Fighters. Did you totally see this right away and I am the crazy one for stating the obvious?

You can't do it with a Title.

You need a Ship Card.

Reason:

Upgrades are attached to a Ship.

You cannot select a Ship that does not match your Affilation.

Ergo, you cannot Select the Ship, in order to put the title on it, in order to change its Affilation.

Chicken/Egg Scenario.

It can work if the enabler is something that is not attached to the Ship Itself - such as a Fleet Commander or an Officer Upgrade on a Different Ship, that says, "This allows you add 'x' to your Fleet, despite the affilation restriction."

But it can't work on a Title that attaches to the Ship itself, as you can't take the Ship first...

Its something that does work when you consider the rules in a "Common Sense" or Colloquial manner... But it doesn't work in actual rules writing.

1 hour ago, BrobaFett said:

This leads me to theorize that the third non-unique hammerhead title is one that will allow the Imperials to run them, and the face down Quasar Fire Title is the Quasar Fire that let's a single copy be fielded by a Rebel player. Maybe that stack of 5 face down upgrades in the Hammerhead reveal and 2 un-pictured upgrade cards in the Quasar Fire reveal will be a set of unique cross faction upgrades they are saving for later as a surprise. Maybe that is also why the Hammerhead is shown with 4 ship cards.

I had assumed that the reason the ship cards were duplicated was because there was two ship models. The same for the face down upgrade cards (Which would be the non-unique ones). If what you are suggesting were to be true, then you'd only have 1 set of everything for two models, and thus never be able to run them both.

True true... but it still remains, if they were going to inteoduce cross faction now seems like a perfect time to do it. I guess we wait for more information

14 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

True true... but it still remains, if they were going to inteoduce cross faction now seems like a perfect time to do it. I guess we wait for more information

Don't lose the faith, BrobaFett, there's still time for cross-faction ships to appear in armada

To cross faction ships in armada you will need more than just a title. You will need a ship card that states it in the opposing faction, as well as a ship tile with the faction colors.

But to be honest the two faction set up of Armada doesn't seem right to have ships with cross faction play. Sure according to extended lore and legends some ships are cross faction with Nebulon-Bs being Imperial ships stolen by the Rebel Alliance. Again those ships seem to fit with the Rebellion better just as the Quasar triangle shape fits with the imperials.

Eh.

The is nothing inherently Imperial or Rebel about most ship cards or bases. Unlike X-Wing, where the cards and dials explicitly reference unique pilots, there is no such restriction on Armada ships. Nothing on a generic, unupgraded ship card or base restricts the usage of the ship in question.

In that sense, a title restricted to specific ship classes that says "this ship may be fielded in a (faction) fleet. It may not take upgrades unless they are (faction) upgrades or neutral."

That would be an awesome upgrade; I'm still sad that the Flurry has become an Imperial ship in the new canon.

X Wing just introduced a dual faction Scurrg bomber. If that were to happen here, they would just release 2 cardboard bases, one imp, one rebel. It wouldn't be an upgrade.

9 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

Then it hit me that obviously both of these ships were stolen by the Phoenix Rebels in the show.

Technically the Hammerheads were not stolen, they were gifted to the Phoenix Rebels by Bail Organa under the guise of being stolen (in order not to implicate Alderaan in the Rebellion). I'm not sure the Empire ever used Corvettes of any kind, especially now as Disney has ret-conned the Corvettes into 'Aldreaan Cruisers' on it's Star Wars database.

Personally I think the 'thing' introduced in this wave is the boarding actions mechanic itself. As much as I like the idea of running the Quasar in my Rebel fleet I agree with the others here, if FFG are going to introduce cross faction ships they'll do it in the same way they've just done it in X-Wing... Possibly after they seen how the X-Wing way of doing it works out.

10 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

So far each wave after the first has introduced to us something new- Wave 2 was Rogue, Wave 3 was Fleet Support, Wave 4 was Experimental, Wave 5 was Fleet Command.

Wave 6 has brought us the two-slot upgrade, but when I looked at the reveal a second time I noticed a trend in them. They each had titles obscured or face down, the hammerhead had what appeared to be 4 ship cards and an extra stack of upgrades. It got me thinking, 'What do these ships have in common with each other that no other ships so far do, and could make for an interesting rule for Armada.'

Then it hit me that obviously both of these ships were stolen by the Phoenix Rebels in the show.

This leads me to theorize that the third non-unique hammerhead title is one that will allow the Imperials to run them, and the face down Quasar Fire Title is the Quasar Fire that let's a single copy be fielded by a Rebel player. Maybe that stack of 5 face down upgrades in the Hammerhead reveal and 2 un-pictured upgrade cards in the Quasar Fire reveal will be a set of unique cross faction upgrades they are saving for later as a surprise. Maybe that is also why the Hammerhead is shown with 4 ship cards.

Anyway, that is my theory and my evidence. Is it likely? Am I crazy? Would it be exciting if both these ships were cross-faction, or is it a mistake to blend factions putting us in a scenario where we could end up with some weird mirror match of Hammerheads and Quasar Fires with one being supported by X-Wings and the other by Tie Fighters. Did you totally see this right away and I am the crazy one for stating the obvious?

It's a nice theory, but unfortunately I doubt it for these reasons:

Quaser: We have seen the cardboard showing green imperial lasers with red AS dice and the ship card showing blue AS dice and the imperial logo.
HH: The cardboard shows the different arc armaments per ship.

The packs would have to come with a second cardboard and ship card for the other faction. And the reveal spread only has enough ship cards for their own faction. But hey they could be tricking us

I still expect Cross-Faction to be done in a future campaign setting, because that is a flavor element for the storyline and should not be attached to a specific ship type in general.

You would do some sort of special boarding in a game to take over a ship (possibly even a special objective) and attach a "prize" token to it which will allow you to include it in your fleet for the next engagements.

If you need a ship card to make something cross-faction, that sounds like a good feature for a future campaign, the way CC added more unique squadrons.

Well, you would not include a separate ship card, because you need at least one for every ship type, a logistic nightmare.

Just assign a "prize" token that stays with the ship, similar to the way you do now with veterans.

12 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Reason:

Upgrades are attached to a Ship.

You cannot select a Ship that does not match your Affilation.

Ergo, you cannot Select the Ship, in order to put the title on it, in order to change its Affilation.

Chicken/Egg Scenario.

It can work if the enabler is something that is not attached to the Ship Itself - such as a Fleet Commander or an Officer Upgrade on a Different Ship, that says, "This allows you add 'x' to your Fleet, despite the affilation restriction."

But it can't work on a Title that attaches to the Ship itself, as you can't take the Ship first...

Its something that does work when you consider the rules in a "Common Sense" or Colloquial manner... But it doesn't work in actual rules writing.

I guess if you follow an order of operations when you build a fleet you're correct. But if you're like me and just open your binder of cards and start grabbing stuff anything is possible

Just now, Undeadguy said:

I guess if you follow an order of operations when you build a fleet you're correct. But if you're like me and just open your binder of cards and start grabbing stuff anything is possible

Like I said - colloquial or "common sense"-ish approach works.

But that is not how Rules are actually formulated or written... Even in the Corellian Conflict, where you can have an Upgrade without a Ship, it had to have gone on a Ship *first*, before being detached.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Like I said - colloquial or "common sense"-ish approach works.

But that is not how Rules are actually formulated or written... Even in the Corellian Conflict, where you can have an Upgrade without a Ship, it had to have gone on a Ship *first*, before being detached.

It does seem like an odd thing for everybody to get caught up on though. . . instead of typing 'upgrade card that allowed' they could just type 'ship card belonging to' couldn't they? I have seen you mention this point repeatedly, often in threads were others who later make the mistake have commented.

The thing I gleaned onto that flirts with this is that in the Hammerheads it looks like a Cham Syndulla (instrumental in the theft of the carrier in Rebels ) dual upgrade with the weapons team and offensive retrofit slots. And what also appears to be a Hondo upgrade whose appearances in Rebels involve misappropriating a ship I don't think we've seen the last of the boarding party shenanigans in this wave.

This doesn't necessarily mean cross faction stuff. As you're getting two ships in the hammerhead pack you're obviously going to get four ship cards so that part of the OP's theory isn't holding a lot of water.

Yuck. I hate the look of that. I detest that Rebel Tie added to Xwing. Even if it is good gameplay-wise.

(But it is a possibility.)

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

And what also appears to be a Hondo upgrade whose appearances in Rebels involve misappropriating a ship I don't think we've seen the last of the boarding party shenanigans in this wave.

But we may have (hopefully at least!) seen yet another nail in coffin of the 'Scum as a third faction' debate!

19 hours ago, Gadgetron said:

X Wing just introduced a dual faction Scurrg bomber. If that were to happen here, they would just release 2 cardboard bases, one imp, one rebel. It wouldn't be an upgrade.

Actually X-wing has several dual faction ships. The Scurrg just happens to be the first to have both Rebel and Scum cards in the same set.

Slave 1 Imp/Scum, Y-wing Rebel/Scum, Z-95 Rebel/Scum, HWK-290 Rebel/Scum <-- to get the Scum cards for these ships you had to buy the Most Wanted set.

There is nothing to say that a card in the Hammerhead set allows you to 'steal' a Quasar-fire carrier for Rebels (using the Imp base plate as nothing structurally changed about the ship and Imp ship card) Maybe Cham Syndulla allows you to do that and Hondo allows you to steal an upgrade from an Imperial ship.

In regards to the big stack of cards in the HH pack, I think some of those will be a second copy of the non-unique upgrades. It would be a very bad move on FFG's part to release a double ship pack but only 1 of each upgrade.

31 minutes ago, Ghost Dancer said:

It would be a very bad move on FFG's part to release a double ship pack but only 1 of each upgrade.

Especially at double the usual MSRP.

Anyway, in response to one of the above comments, yes - the reason for having two identical ships in a pack (and I really, really wish that FFG had painted them slightly differently) is so they can use the non-unique Task Force titles, which almost certainly allow for co-ordination between the two ships, so that when one activates, both attack or move or whatever. Nothing to do with cross-faction.

9 hours ago, outerrimrebel said:

Actually X-wing has several dual faction ships. The Scurrg just happens to be the first to have both Rebel and Scum cards in the same set.

Slave 1 Imp/Scum, Y-wing Rebel/Scum, Z-95 Rebel/Scum, HWK-290 Rebel/Scum <-- to get the Scum cards for these ships you had to buy the Most Wanted set.

There is nothing to say that a card in the Hammerhead set allows you to 'steal' a Quasar-fire carrier for Rebels (using the Imp base plate as nothing structurally changed about the ship and Imp ship card) Maybe Cham Syndulla allows you to do that and Hondo allows you to steal an upgrade from an Imperial ship.

The X-Wing example of the 'Most Wanted' box isn't the best analogy though as this was only released to 'bump-start' the Scum faction. FFG wanted to provide players with more ships (Rebels and Imperials both had nine at the time I believe) than the five models they actually released so included cards, etc for two models that already existed. This meant Scum and Villainy as a faction started on a more equal footing with the other two factions. I think for Armada if they introduce cross faction ships it will follow the Scurrg model of including cards, titles, base cards, etc in with the model.

Saying all that though... I like the idea of Cham or Hondo allowing you to run a stolen Imperial vessel. As a Rebel player I'd have an excuse to run out and buy an Arquitens for the Blast Doors!