11 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

All the TIE titles, x1, x7 etc etc have TIE Advanced, TIE Defender only. If this thing does come with a title, dare say it will say TIE Aggressor only. I am hoping that FFG thought more of its consumers and thought they wouldn't have to explain that bit.

Thanks for the compliment! I'm thinking of cards that say "TIE Fighter only" on them and can be taken by the TIE/FO Fighter and TIE/SF Fighter since they have the words TIE and Fighter on the card. Does the same logic apply is a card says "Aggressor only" can it be taken by the TIE Aggressor since that card has Aggressor in it. Of course its completely preposterous to take the card...

By RAW, yes, it does, but expect IG2000 to be errated (probably to be Scum Only) before Wave 11 releases.

2 hours ago, ForceM said:

What? Similar to things we have seen before? Like all the other imp ships with turrets and Unlimited Rockets?

We must have had so many i lost count!

TLT aggressor- hwk

missile aggressor-xwing/advanced

rebels/scum get another bomber that is better at bombing than the ship named "tie bomber".

Rebels/scum getting more cross over in ships and cards.

Look, another tough 1 agility rebel ship!

I wasn't talking Imperial Only but am an imperialist.

and I am hopeful We havnt seen dials or pilot abilities but up to this point a lot of those ships don't look like much more than other options that have been tried before.

I'm hopeful and want to be wrong.

18 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

TLT aggressor- hwk

missile aggressor-xwing/advanced

rebels/scum get another bomber that is better at bombing than the ship named "tie bomber".

Rebels/scum getting more cross over in ships and cards.

Look, another tough 1 agility rebel ship!

I wasn't talking Imperial Only but am an imperialist.

and I am hopeful We havnt seen dials or pilot abilities but up to this point a lot of those ships don't look like much more than other options that have been tried before.

I'm hopeful and want to be wrong.

I agree. Not much new to see here, although Imps getting a turret is cool. I guess it helps me endure the wait until it is released.

And if the Imps needed a turreted ship, could we have broken the TIE-variant-only mold just once:

11 hours ago, Rakky Wistol said:

I'm liking the potential but it all looks really similar to things we've seen before that havnt panned out or less useful versions of things that already exist.

Oh, and scum rebels have access to how many more ships than the empire now?

Not ships, upgrades. However after Wave 11 that deficit will drop drastically. The only thing now that Rebel Scum is keeping from Imperials are (faction) astromechs and illicits.

But the turret upgrade slot is a most welcomed addition to the Imperial fleet. Rebels and Scum had them since their first wave. Wave 7 made that a significant faction imbalance, and it took 4 waves for that deficit to be patched.

16 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Another TIE, yeah I know. But it's not fugly like the oppressor or Hunter or *shudder* raptor.

GUNBOAT with Unguided, tho, just imagine!

You shouldn't insult a man's shipfu like that. Them's fightin' words where I come from.

Also, on the subject of the Gunboat, since it would also almost assuredly be another double-missile ship, I'd reckon that it's probably not a bad idea to guess it might come in future to imperials if double-missile (and thus Unguided Rockets) is now their thing.

EDIT: Oh, and while I don't necessarily think Imperials should get Astros - Havoc sets some interesting precedent with adding Salvaged Slot but only allowing uniques. You could easily flip that for another faction to equip only generic Salvaged/Astros.

Man, You can do 5 x Scimitar w/ Rockets and Adaptive Ailerons Lightweight Frame! That's going to be fun! I've got 6 Tie Bombers ready to go.

Tie Punishers can take the Rockets, too! Everyone but Redline is happy. Man, a generic will be beefy enough that it won't die like Bomber, it will get to Boost, and use FCS for the TL! I can't wait!

9 hours ago, Azrapse said:

TIEs that look worse than the Gunboat

No such thiiiiiiiing.

22 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

EDIT: Oh, and while I don't necessarily think Imperials should get Astros - Havoc sets some interesting precedent with adding Salvaged Slot but only allowing uniques. You could easily flip that for another faction to equip only generic Salvaged/Astros.

Now that they've shown they're fully willing to FAQ the **** out of cards, they really need to just make all Astromechs into one upgrade type and make the necessary ones Rebel only or Scum only.

Then we can finally get a nice Vader in an ETA-2 Actis with BT-1 in the astromech slot.

17 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Man, You can do 5 x Scimitar w/ Rockets and Adaptive Ailerons! That's going to be fun! I've got 6 Tie Bombers ready to go.

Tie Punishers can take the Rockets, too! Everyone but Redline is happy. Man, a generic will be beefy enough that it won't die like Bomber, it will get to Boost, and use FCS for the TL! I can't wait!

Hmmm I thought Adaptive Ailerons were TIE Striker only... did you mean something else? Lightweight Frame?

10 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Hmmm I thought Adaptive Ailerons were TIE Striker only... did you mean something else? Lightweight Frame?

Yes, that's it. Lightweight Frame. I haven't used either too often enough to really tell the difference. Thanks!

5 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Not ships, upgrades. However after Wave 11 that deficit will drop drastically. The only thing now that Rebel Scum is keeping from Imperials are (faction) astromechs and illicits.

But the turret upgrade slot is a most welcomed addition to the Imperial fleet. Rebels and Scum had them since their first wave. Wave 7 made that a significant faction imbalance, and it took 4 waves for that deficit to be patched.

It's ships and upgrades. Rebels flat out have 2 more ships, SOOOOOOOOOOO many more crew, and astros, AND illicits. The one that still irks me most is they're superior bombers.

I like that the Tie Aggressor is going to have essentially 2 separate builds. I'm just sad those builds are HWK mode and Xwing mode... 2 ships that just don't cut it.

HWK:

yes, it does have 2 firepower. Would rebel hwks see play with 2 firepower? Maybe, but they have a crew (and the aforementioned extra crew choices) slot too. If you've already spent 4-7pts on a turret those missile slots are likely unused. With BR, a substantially superior dial, and SCUM hwk power pilot abilities these could make a splash at their price point. I think I talked myself into liking this a little more. Add LWF and you have some durability.

Xwing:

Unlimited missiles is a great idea. But those missiles pack less punch than the xwing's 3 native reds. Sure there is no range 3 bonus but there is also no range 1 bonus. Dial? While I expect it to be superior to the HWK that's not saying much. Since this thing is more HWK or Ywing I'm guessing it's not going to have a "better" dial than the xwing. It does come with BR, which is nice, and needed. It does lose a shield to hull but I think LWF, again, makes this a push. And, again, if you went missile you're not buying a turret and you're out of upgrade slots. So is an xwing with a slightly weaker gun and BR worth 21pts? Ask the tie advanced.

10 hours ago, SabineKey said:

So, two well constructed Rebel lists owned the Empire's good teams. Hmm. Sounds like they have a better tool box.

Which is why U-Boats were nerfed. That's on Scum, not Imps.

Yes, because they had the mauverability to deal with U-Boats and the U-Boats were suppressing what preyed on the Imp lists. Again, that's on Scum.

And finally, where do you think Rebel players were going? Stuff like x7 enticed some, but I'm betting most switched over to the faction most like the Rebels that was currently in a position of power, namely Scum.

The Empire has always been X-Wing's boogieman. Until Parattanni, all I heard was "you have to beat this Imperial list, or that one". And yet for all that, they never dominated like certain Scum lists and, despite having lessor numbers, Rebels still manage to nab top spots in upper level events.

So the nerfs on Deadeye, Zuckuss, Manaroo, Droid were justified, but the nerfs on Emperor and x7 not? Is taht what you are saying?

I mean i was never in favor of an emperor nerf, i think it was not really necessary. There are lists that can deal with Palp Lists that are not too limiting otherwise. Nonetheless it has been one of the most dominating lists in the meta for some 2 years. They had to balance new Waves around Palpy to not make them too powerful. And stilll he would have stayed one of the top lists if they hadn't nerfed him.

I think the nerfs happened for different reasons here. The scum nerfs happened because the J5K just has too good stats and slots for its price (U-Boats) and on top of them they were home of some pretty broken infinite combos (Dengaroo). Manaroo/Mindlink is equally broken combo and permitted by far the best action economy in the game without any compromise to make (Parattani). Against that, the Emperor was just limiting design options for Empire too much and sidelined too many other imperial builds for far too long, besides always staying one of the 3 top meta lists under varying forms.

Under the meta since the J5K came out, Rebels were just inexistent. Watch results on juggler, look at regionals, and lastly at worlds and you will see that rebels were underperforming for quite some time. They had by far the least tournament victories and top 8/16 spots, especially until U-boats were 100% dead, and fared only little better against dengaroo. They fared a little better against Parattani because they can handle Fenn quite well. Ventress is another story, but if you get rid of Fenn fast enough you stand a chance. Only then they started to make a little comeback, but it's really only now after the nerfs that they could start to play a more dominant role again. I mean finally, Regen could work out again and their TIE could start to give them good control lists again. I really like the idea

But i also like that Empire can now finally get some new tools on the table, much like this Aggressor that brings both an imperial small turret and infinite odnance. I think we will see more varied Imp builds in the future, Ren, Defenders, Varied Ace squads with Emperor and a bit more ordnance usage too.

1 hour ago, ForceM said:

So the nerfs on Deadeye, Zuckuss, Manaroo, Droid were justified, but the nerfs on Emperor and x7 not? Is taht what you are saying?

I mean i was never in favor of an emperor nerf, i think it was not really necessary. There are lists that can deal with Palp Lists that are not too limiting otherwise. Nonetheless it has been one of the most dominating lists in the meta for some 2 years. They had to balance new Waves around Palpy to not make them too powerful. And stilll he would have stayed one of the top lists if they hadn't nerfed him.

I think the nerfs happened for different reasons here. The scum nerfs happened because the J5K just has too good stats and slots for its price (U-Boats) and on top of them they were home of some pretty broken infinite combos (Dengaroo). Manaroo/Mindlink is equally broken combo and permitted by far the best action economy in the game without any compromise to make (Parattani). Against that, the Emperor was just limiting design options for Empire too much and sidelined too many other imperial builds for far too long, besides always staying one of the 3 top meta lists under varying forms.

Under the meta since the J5K came out, Rebels were just inexistent. Watch results on juggler, look at regionals, and lastly at worlds and you will see that rebels were underperforming for quite some time. They had by far the least tournament victories and top 8/16 spots, especially until U-boats were 100% dead, and fared only little better against dengaroo. They fared a little better against Parattani because they can handle Fenn quite well. Ventress is another story, but if you get rid of Fenn fast enough you stand a chance. Only then they started to make a little comeback, but it's really only now after the nerfs that they could start to play a more dominant role again. I mean finally, Regen could work out again and their TIE could start to give them good control lists again. I really like the idea

But i also like that Empire can now finally get some new tools on the table, much like this Aggressor that brings both an imperial small turret and infinite odnance. I think we will see more varied Imp builds in the future, Ren, Defenders, Varied Ace squads with Emperor and a bit more ordnance usage too.

Agreed. While I don't like the extent of the nerf, it has forced people to look at different options. I know of some of my friends are looking at lower agility Imp ships because of Zuckess's nerf. All this talk about bombers or punishers with Unguided Rockets probably wouldn't be so enthusiastic if there was no FAQ. The hammer had to hit all of the big contenders at once, or one would dominate.

Now, I'm not saying that there isn't value in the FAQ ruling and that Imps haven't been more dominate than Rebels. I'm saying that Rebels have been having trouble with showing more because of Scum rather then Imps. And that it's been about 5 months (give or take) since the U-Boats were taken down, and in that time Rebels made an excellent bid for Worlds title, and I've been seeing more and more of them in local tournaments and in two Regionals I've gone to. Rebels aren't as beleaguered as they once were, and certainly not now after the FAQ took down their biggest competitors. I'd even go so far as to say that they aren't in a worse position then Empire post-nerf as all the stuff that did work against the old meta is still there for Rebels.

The Empire has always born the brunt of complaints, yet wasn't the big problem in the "since wave 8" timeframe specified at the beginning of this. So forgive the Empire if they think their old friends were dealt with too harshly and want to grieve them. The new stuff is opening options and are interesting, but further drift away from the play styles Palp and x7 afforded, so therefore don't always scratch the same itch. Rebels have done this too. Let 'em be.

9 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Agreed. While I don't like the extent of the nerf, it has forced people to look at different options. I know of some of my friends are looking at lower agility Imp ships because of Zuckess's nerf. All this talk about bombers or punishers with Unguided Rockets probably wouldn't be so enthusiastic if there was no FAQ. The hammer had to hit all of the big contenders at once, or one would dominate.

Now, I'm not saying that there isn't value in the FAQ ruling and that Imps haven't been more dominate than Rebels. I'm saying that Rebels have been having trouble with showing more because of Scum rather then Imps. And that it's been about 5 months (give or take) since the U-Boats were taken down, and in that time Rebels made an excellent bid for Worlds title, and I've been seeing more and more of them in local tournaments and in two Regionals I've gone to. Rebels aren't as beleaguered as they once were, and certainly not now after the FAQ took down their biggest competitors. I'd even go so far as to say that they aren't in a worse position then Empire post-nerf as all the stuff that did work against the old meta is still there for Rebels.

The Empire has always born the brunt of complaints, yet wasn't the big problem in the "since wave 8" timeframe specified at the beginning of this. So forgive the Empire if they think their old friends were dealt with too harshly and want to grieve them. The new stuff is opening options and are interesting, but further drift away from the play styles Palp and x7 afforded, so therefore don't always scratch the same itch. Rebels have done this too. Let 'em be.

I agree with most of this. Scum was shutting out Rebels rather than Empire, that's true. Rebels always had lists that could beat Palp lists and also Defenders.

Also, Rebels might like imperial ordnance lists much less than they like Aces as opponents. Their low agi ships can be alpha-stricken pretry hard if not careful...

On top of that the cards were only nerfed, they're not completely dead. Emperor is still strong as it is, albeit a bit overcosted now. X7 is basically the same except you can't bump, get bumped or stress yourself at will.

Manaroo was always used aggressively inParattani, and kept formation with Asajj pretty often anyway. She just can't double focus Fenn as easily.

Zuckuss is the only one probably dead. But then for 1 point he might be costed correctly now and with Inspiring recruits, it's not inpossible to make a comeback.

3 hours ago, ForceM said:

I agree with most of this. Scum was shutting out Rebels rather than Empire, that's true. Rebels always had lists that could beat Palp lists and also Defenders.

Also, Rebels might like imperial ordnance lists much less than they like Aces as opponents. Their low agi ships can be alpha-stricken pretry hard if not careful...

On top of that the cards were only nerfed, they're not completely dead. Emperor is still strong as it is, albeit a bit overcosted now. X7 is basically the same except you can't bump, get bumped or stress yourself at will.

Manaroo was always used aggressively inParattani, and kept formation with Asajj pretty often anyway. She just can't double focus Fenn as easily.

Zuckuss is the only one probably dead. But then for 1 point he might be costed correctly now and with Inspiring recruits, it's not inpossible to make a comeback.

Also agree with most of this. Palp still has a place, but as you said, perhaps not worth the cost. I think we will see a sharp decline in x7's if the Stresshog returns as I'm guessing. Not extinct, but definitely reduced. Manny...is fine when compared to Parattanni. Everything else is a little janky. I honestly think Zuckuss might see some play with Alpha strikers to ensure maximum damage. The Inspiring Recruit is a good point.

On 2017-03-16 at 6:04 AM, MaxPower said:

I wouldn't say that. I always found the opressor much better looking than the aggressor.

I also like the Tie Predator and the Sith Fury. The Fury would make a nice large base ship addition for the Imps. Since Maul is in SW Rebels, it would be a possibility. Both ships would add some needed visual diversity to the Imp faction.

I love the tie Predator. I think it could be a great 3/3/3/2 ship with Sloops and T-rolls and the tech slot instead of cannons and a stiff dial like the defender.

Sith Infiltrator is great because it looks like a large ship that fits between the advanced/TAPP/Aggressor and the Raider. It's different enough but looks like an imperial ship. No idea what the stats should be.

I hope we see both those ships.

1 hour ago, Rakky Wistol said:

I love the tie Predator. I think it could be a great 3/3/3/2 ship with Sloops and T-rolls and the tech slot instead of cannons and a stiff dial like the defender.

Sith Infiltrator is great because it looks like a large ship that fits between the advanced/TAPP/Aggressor and the Raider. It's different enough but looks like an imperial ship. No idea what the stats should be.

I hope we see both those ships.

How about a cloaking large base ship for Infiltrator? :-) Woud use the 1 template to decloak. Would have a title enabling the use of Advanced Cloaking Device. 4 attack dices (or maybe 4 cloaked/3 uncloaked) with good dial but more fragile than a Decimator. Like no agi or no defense dice when uncloaked with 5 shield+5 hull.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

How about a cloaking large base ship for Infiltrator? :-) Woud use the 1 template to decloak. Would have a title enabling the use of Advanced Cloaking Device. 4 attack dices (or maybe 4 cloaked/3 uncloaked) with good dial but more fragile than a Decimator. Like no agi or no defense dice when uncloaked with 5 shield+5 hull.

Cloaking would be pretty awesome. Not sure of the armament. 6 lasers sounds like a solid 3 att.

3/1/5/5 TL/Focus/Cloak

Darth Maul- You may set up at range 2 of your starting area. You begin the game cloaked.

Darth Sidious- At the beginning of the round you may choose your PS 0-9. At the begining of the combat phase you may choose your PS 0-9.

0-66- Something about keeping the ship from dying.

Chanath Cha- Your upgrade bar gains the illicit slot