Discussion of future releases has already begun even as we get our first glimpses of Wave 6. One argument that has been going back and forth is whether we should get a new release with the Mark One Imperial Star Destroyer from Rebels, Rogue One, & A New Hope. Here are 5 reasons I think we should:

1: Perfect way to introduce Thrawn & the Chimaera

Grand Admiral Thrawn is an automatic include for a game like Armada. He is one of the most iconic fleet commanders in Star Wars Lore. Even in the new EU he has been set up as a master strategist and tactician. I think most would agree his inclusion is more of a when than an if.

The most natural place for him to be introduced is aboard his flagship, the Chimaera; A unique ISD-I.

2: The new model would be distinct

The old school ISD-I would cut a familiar yet distinct figure on the game board. Yes it's another triangle, but the gleaming white paint job would make it a prominent addition to the fleet. Further, the alternate bridge and slick Chimaera insignia would distinguish it from the fleet as something special.

3: there are lots of possibilities for altering the mechanics for the new ISD I

Imagine an ISD-I command variant that includes the fleet command upgrade and new Imperial centric cards. How about a communications variant that gets the fleet support upgrade. Look at what they've done with Wave 6 and joining older upgrades together for new effects. There is a lot of design room here.

4: The old ISD I should be considered a refit, and tector should be an ISD II variant

The ISD-I that came with the first model doesn't look like an ISD-I. It looks like an ISD-II; and that's fine as long as we think of it as a refit.

Also, I know the idea of a Tector model has been thrown around, but honestly - it's just an ISD-II with no hanger. That is a variant, and not really worthy of a new model. From a visual standpoint you wouldn't be able to tell the difference without flipping it over.

5: The ISD should be the most prominent Imperial ship in Imperial collections

The Imperial Class is meant to be an iconic symbol of Imperial power, projecting a monolithic and overpowering presence throughout the Galaxy. They are THE most seen ships in the original Trilogy.

A lot of players have limited funds and can only buy 1 of each new release. That means that the most iconic and Omnipresent ship from the movies will only be represented by one model on the table. A new ISD-I model would double that number, and at the very least tying it with the Victory Class.

And hopefully with the skill that the Armada team has been bringing neglected ships and builds back into the spotlight, the ISD-I could be used to make Large ships great again.

I'm not sure I like your 'people can only buy one of each thing, so release it again so they can have two' argument.

If the person can generally only afford one of each thing, and hasn't saved up for a second ISD, why is that purchase now acceptable? For the new cards?

If they don't want a second ISD enough to buy one, they just won't buy one.

Is it just a new model or an entire new version? And if I get a new version, why would I pick between either one? Does the old one become obsolete as we see power creep?

I'd prefer just a model pack with cards already printed like Flight Controllers. And then they can make a large Home One for the Rebels since 2000m length is canon now.

14 minutes ago, TheCallum said:

I'm not sure I like your 'people can only buy one of each thing, so release it again so they can have two' argument.

If the person can generally only afford one of each thing, and hasn't saved up for a second ISD, why is that purchase now acceptable? For the new cards?

If they don't want a second ISD enough to buy one, they just won't buy one.

I know a few players who are either unable or unwilling to buy multiples of the same ship.

This would be a separate release with a new model and all new cards.

still... I knew this was the weakest argument so I saved it for last.

The only thing I disagree with here is the Chimaera paint scheme. I think it's quite silly looking, but I love the look of the white ISD-1.

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Is it just a new model or an entire new version? And if I get a new version, why would I pick between either one? Does the old one become obsolete as we see power creep?

I'd prefer just a model pack with cards already printed like Flight Controllers. And then they can make a large Home One for the Rebels since 2000m length is canon now.

Ideally it would be a new version. You wouldn't need to pick between them; the ISD-I wouldn't be better or worse, just different. Access to new upgrades would replace those on the ISD-II, or this variant would cost more.

I mean, we already have 2 variants, (with different models,) of the MC-80. Is another model of the ISD so outlandish?

I can see the argument for rereleasing ISD with a different ship model/paint scheme, a set of different upgrade cards and a different admiral. I think that one of the likely ways to do it is to follow XWing Imperial Aces/Imperial Veterans precedent and release it together with alternate art Raider (or Gozanti or Squadrons) to create a pack that together with core can be used to create a competitive fleet relatively cheap.

The TFA Millenium Falcon is very much in similar straights, right? Same ship, different model, different cards? Just wondering if there's precedence, or if the TFA Falcon somehow is drastically different.

10 minutes ago, pt106 said:

I can see the argument for rereleasing ISD with a different ship model/paint scheme, a set of different upgrade cards and a different admiral. I think that one of the likely ways to do it is to follow XWing Imperial Aces/Imperial Veterans precedent and release it together with alternate art Raider (or Gozanti or Squadrons) to create a pack that together with core can be used to create a competitive fleet relatively cheap.

Crabbok showed us a new Gozanti variant from Rebels with a bunch of dishes and additional engines - I would love to see an Imperial aces with an ISD- I and that new ship as a flotilla.

I agree that the ISD should be a flexible building block of the Imperial war machine. If any ship in Armada deserved never to be outshined by new shiny stuff, it's the ISD. A rerelease with alternate versions would do a lot to help this. For any military purpose the Empire has, the ISD is there: long-range patrol, fleet engagements, pursuing stolen station plans, pursuing Han Solo, carrying ground invasion forces, suppressing civil unrest. There can be more than two ship cards for it, easy.

I prefered when Chimaera was an ISDII from legends... sigh... the good old days...before the dark times... before the Mouse

1 hour ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

Ideally it would be a new version. You wouldn't need to pick between them; the ISD-I wouldn't be better or worse, just different. Access to new upgrades would replace those on the ISD-II, or this variant would cost more.

I mean, we already have 2 variants, (with different models,) of the MC-80. Is another model of the ISD so outlandish?

Fair point, but I'm still not convinced you can make a new ISD I different than what we have without fundamentally changing the ISD. The MC80 change is easy because you already have 2 models, and anyone who played EaW can attest to the differences between the MC80L and Home One. MC80L was a forward facing ship to bring its 6 hard points to attack, where as the Home One was a broad side. Minor details, but it is a starting place for FFG to draft some ideas.

I find it difficult to see another "ISD" without losing the ISD feel to it. Drop some dice and it's a Vic. Add some dice and you get power creep. You can change the upgrade slots, but it already has most of the original ones. Fleet command with Sloane would be crazy OP. Speed 5 Ties with rerolls and defense token nonsense.

I'm not super opposed to getting a new version of it, so long as it doesn't replace what we already have. The design space is quite small IMO.

They could do this if they called it an isd prototype, give us a new model with new cards and everything. A repainted would be boring.

5 minutes ago, Jukey said:

They could do this if they called it an isd prototype, give us a new model with new cards and everything. A repainted would be boring.

From what I understand, it would not be just a repaint, but an 'entirely new' model, since the ISD-I is significantly different model if you have the eagle-eyes to spot the differences (or the interest to learn them). Something about the engines and bridge.

The trouble is, is the isd 1 already has a card in the game, so to make a new model called an isd 1 would cause complications. If it's called something else, like a prototype, then we can have a new model and cards with it.

21 minutes ago, Jukey said:

The trouble is, is the isd 1 already has a card in the game, so to make a new model called an isd 1 would cause complications. If it's called something else, like a prototype, then we can have a new model and cards with it.

That I agree with, and I think is the first of two major issues with the idea: the name. The other is the color scheme. I really don't like the sound of a sparkling white spaceship. . . sounds dull and ugly as a color.

This isn't a big deal at all - release an ISD I model with a different paint job and slight differences to the existing model and add a ruling that a player can use either model with either variant of the ship. This isn't anything "extra" for players to worry about - you already have the situation where a model can represent different variations. New model, new paint job, new cards == sold!

FFG already does this in other games, simple to do the same thing in this one. And I really hope they do. It always feels wrong for me to run an Imp list without an ISD in it.

3 minutes ago, Ken-Obi said:

This isn't a big deal at all - release an ISD I model with a different paint job and slight differences to the existing model and add a ruling that a player can use either model with either variant of the ship. This isn't anything "extra" for players to worry about - you already have the situation where a model can represent different variations. New model, new paint job, new cards == sold!

FFG already does this in other games, simple to do the same thing in this one. And I really hope they do. It always feels wrong for me to run an Imp list without an ISD in it.

Introducing a new model for preexisting cards (if that's what you're suggesting) makes sense and is a nice answer, if not a largely profitable one for FFG (since those who have the current ISD and don't care about the ISD-1/-II differences mightn't buy it). As such, I would suspect that this wouldn't happen unless it came with some much desired upgrades. . maybe they could release it as a 'revised ISD' model for the preexisting ship in a pack with new ship cards and titles for the Imps? Then maybe they'd do the same with Home One for the Rebs to balance it out.

24 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Introducing a new model for preexisting cards (if that's what you're suggesting) makes sense and is a nice answer, if not a largely profitable one for FFG (since those who have the current ISD and don't care about the ISD-1/-II differences mightn't buy it). As such, I would suspect that this wouldn't happen unless it came with some much desired upgrades. . maybe they could release it as a 'revised ISD' model for the preexisting ship in a pack with new ship cards and titles for the Imps? Then maybe they'd do the same with Home One for the Rebs to balance it out.

That was the whole point - if they're going to do it they'll give players a reason to buy it. Every non-fighter expansion comes with a commander, new upgrades (and possibly copies of existing upgrades), and titles... so Thrawn, a few upgrade cards, and Chimaera (maybe another 1-2 titles). They don't have to do ISD variant 3 and 4 if they don't want to - they can still package the same I and II cards. They don't release expansions without upgrades and they have a precedent in other games for components to be usable in multiple ways (for example you can use either Falcon model with any YT-1300 pilot as far as I'm aware). I think they'd sell plenty of these. I also really like the idea of doing it as a veterans-like pack with another alt ship.

5 minutes ago, Ken-Obi said:

That was the whole point - if they're going to do it they'll give players a reason to buy it. Every non-fighter expansion comes with a commander, new upgrades (and possibly copies of existing upgrades), and titles... so Thrawn, a few upgrade cards, and Chimaera (maybe another 1-2 titles). They don't have to do ISD variant 3 and 4 if they don't want to - they can still package the same I and II cards. They don't release expansions without upgrades and they have a precedent in other games for components to be usable in multiple ways (for example you can use either Falcon model with any YT-1300 pilot as far as I'm aware). I think they'd sell plenty of these. I also really like the idea of doing it as a veterans-like pack with another alt ship.

I'm out of likes (again), so let this: QFT!!

Suffice.

1 minute ago, NobodyInParticular said:

I'm out of likes (again), so let this: QFT!!

Suffice.

Sorry if I wasn't more clear earlier with what I had pictured in my head.

The first ISD release should have been the ISD2, included in it should have been 3 ISDII titles and ISDII upgrades and 2 distinct ISDII variants.

But, it wasn't.... SO...

The second ISD release should be a combo, two distinct variants, specifically, the command class ISDI and ISDII. Included, a Grand Admiral Thrawn commander, 3 titles (to even the numbers), ISDI upgrades (Director Krennic and C2-B5 crew card at least.) Most importantly however, a Rogue One ISDI model, specifically using the new Disney approved CGI model that they used in the movie (this would also end the debate about an "official" ISD shape.)

People complaining about having too many triangles, pizza slices, daggers, in the Imperial lineup, you need to pick a new faction, because guess what? Just like I hope you enjoy the iconic TIE fighters (because we got a lot of em, in a lot of variants) we have a lot of iconic triangles, pizza slices and daggers yet to be released in our lineup. Just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean they shouldn't get priority releases due to iconic and canon status.

Likewise, rebels still need their 3rd MC80 model, don't like it? Too bad, it's canon, guess what's NOT canon? Opinions....

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm tired of reading that canon ships shouldn't be released because people have decided that they don't like them.

7 hours ago, Gadgetron said:

The first ISD release should have been the ISD2, included in it should have been 3 ISDII titles and ISDII upgrades and 2 distinct ISDII variants.

But, it wasn't.... SO...

The second ISD release should be a combo, two distinct variants, specifically, the command class ISDI and ISDII. Included, a Grand Admiral Thrawn commander, 3 titles (to even the numbers), ISDI upgrades (Director Krennic and C2-B5 crew card at least.) Most importantly however, a Rogue One ISDI model, specifically using the new Disney approved CGI model that they used in the movie (this would also end the debate about an "official" ISD shape.)

People complaining about having too many triangles, pizza slices, daggers, in the Imperial lineup, you need to pick a new faction, because guess what? Just like I hope you enjoy the iconic TIE fighters (because we got a lot of em, in a lot of variants) we have a lot of iconic triangles, pizza slices and daggers yet to be released in our lineup. Just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean they shouldn't get priority releases due to iconic and canon status.

Likewise, rebels still need their 3rd MC80 model, don't like it? Too bad, it's canon, guess what's NOT canon? Opinions....

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm tired of reading that canon ships shouldn't be released because people have decided that they don't like them.

This is a game. Game design and business considerations are more important than making sure you've released a model for every canon ship. Don't like it? Too bad. This idea that because a 3rd MC80 variant exists in canon somewhere that obliges FFG to release one is simply idiotic.

If there's room in the design space for another ISD, and FFG thinks they can make it different enougn to justify a $50 model, they'll make it. Simply releasing something which is similar to what already exists and whose selling point "new model" and "have to spend $50 to get new admiral" will piss off a lot of people.

4 hours ago, Valca said:

This is a game. Game design and business considerations are more important than making sure you've released a model for every canon ship. Don't like it? Too bad. This idea that because a 3rd MC80 variant exists in canon somewhere that obliges FFG to release one is simply idiotic.

If there's room in the design space for another ISD, and FFG thinks they can make it different enougn to justify a $50 model, they'll make it. Simply releasing something which is similar to what already exists and whose selling point "new model" and "have to spend $50 to get new admiral" will piss off a lot of people.

So because Heroclix has been successful, we should see Romulan bird-of-prey commanded by He-Man because profit?

It's a Star Wars game first and foremost, people playing it should expect Star Wars. Guess what? Star Wars design for the factions is pretty cut and dry, Imps are large battleship grey triangles with swarms of solar panels for fighters. Rebels are more eclectic, but their largest capital ships typically follow a pickle theme with an alphabetical list of fighters.

That's Star Wars, that's what it's been since 1977.

11 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

So because Heroclix has been successful, we should see Romulan bird-of-prey commanded by He-Man because profit?

It's a Star Wars game first and foremost, people playing it should expect Star Wars. Guess what? Star Wars design for the factions is pretty cut and dry, Imps are large battleship grey triangles with swarms of solar panels for fighters. Rebels are more eclectic, but their largest capital ships typically follow a pickle theme with an alphabetical list of fighters.

That's Star Wars, that's what it's been since 1977.

Wait wait wait. Lets not dismiss that Romulans+The Power of Greyskull thing out of hand. Wave 8?