It seems to me that specifiying that you can't use Pursuant to resolve a squadron command on reveal of a squadron command suggests you can resolve two dials. You can't flip a squadron dial and use Pursuant to activate eight squadrons. Pursuant doesn't change the dial or discard the dial or spend the dial to do Pursuant's effect. And since you can resolve more than one command typically I don't see why you don't both get the dial you revealed and Pursuant's effect. Purusant rewards careful planning in that way.

You're going to want to be spamming Squadron commands with your Pursuant ship anyway, that's why it's there but you will have to repair or navigate at some point.

Plus I'd agree with this:

4 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Furthermore, when pursuant says treat this command, its referring to the squadron command it just gave you. Not the command on the dial you flipped.

I see Pursuant as essentially being a skilled first officer without taking up an important officer slot.

4 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

I see Pursuant as essentially being a skilled first officer without taking up an important officer slot.

Yeah but thats not what it is.

Dial is not a command.

A ship can resolve as many command as it want as long as don't resolve the same twice. If that commands comes from dials or tokens don't matter in order to being able to resolve, just matters to resolve in a way or another.

Pursuant gives a command, not a dial. You can resolve that command as long as you didn't resolve it yet this round. The explanation about treat that command as if is there to clarify what effect has that command as you are not spending a dial or a token.

I see.

1 hour ago, Madaghmire said:

Furthermore, when pursuant says treat this command, its referring to the squadron command it just gave you. Not the command on the dial you flipped.

"[T]his command" is referring to "[the] command other than a squadron command [that you just revealed]"

Hence, Pursuant operates like SFO.

8 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

"[T]his command" is referring to "[the] command other than a squadron command [that you just revealed]"

Hence, Pursuant operates like SFO.

No. Pursuant reads;

"When you reveal a command other than a [Squadron Command], you may discard this card to resolve a [Squadron Command]. Treat this command as if you spent a [Squadron Command] dial."

"Treat this command..." is clearly referring to the [Squadron Command] it just bestowed upon you, otherwise you would have no idea how to value it. There is no "instead". There is nothing, at all, modifying or displacing the command dial you initally flipped. The sole argument that made sense in treating the new command as though it was replacing the one you initially flipped would have been if something in the rules precluded a player from resolving multiple dials. But nothing like that exists. The only reason we've never done it before is because we lacked the agency required.

The card, as written, allows you to resolve two dials, and sadly sheds exactly no light on the Leia debate despite the similar wording.

Hey Mad, I think this is your mike here on the ground. You must've dropped it.

54 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

No. Pursuant reads;

"When you reveal a command other than a [Squadron Command], you may discard this card to resolve a [Squadron Command]. Treat this command as if you spent a [Squadron Command] dial."

"Treat this command..." is clearly referring to the [Squadron Command] it just bestowed upon you, otherwise you would have no idea how to value it. There is no "instead". There is nothing, at all, modifying or displacing the command dial you initally flipped. The sole argument that made sense in treating the new command as though it was replacing the one you initially flipped would have been if something in the rules precluded a player from resolving multiple dials. But nothing like that exists. The only reason we've never done it before is because we lacked the agency required.

The card, as written, allows you to resolve two dials, and sadly sheds exactly no light on the Leia debate despite the similar wording.

The card doesn't read:

"Treat this command as if you [ALSO] spent a squadron command."

I rest my case.

4 hours ago, Madaghmire said:

No. Pursuant reads;

"When you reveal a command other than a [Squadron Command], you may discard this card to resolve a [Squadron Command]. Treat this command as if you spent a [Squadron Command] dial."

"Treat this command..." is clearly referring to the [Squadron Command] it just bestowed upon you, otherwise you would have no idea how to value it. There is no "instead". There is nothing, at all, modifying or displacing the command dial you initally flipped. The sole argument that made sense in treating the new command as though it was replacing the one you initially flipped would have been if something in the rules precluded a player from resolving multiple dials. But nothing like that exists. The only reason we've never done it before is because we lacked the agency required.

The card, as written, allows you to resolve two dials, and sadly sheds exactly no light on the Leia debate despite the similar wording.

I agree with what you're saying about "Pursuant".
But that is a one time use, on one ship, once per game, and it can be stopped by your opponent exhausting the card before you can use it.

No way Leia is working on every ship, every round of the game. She costs the same as Tarkin, and works pretty much identically to him (he gives every ship the same token, she allows the gain of a token matching your dial.)

4 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

I agree with what you're saying about "Pursuant".
But that is a one time use, on one ship, once per game, and it can be stopped by your opponent exhausting the card before you can use it.

No way Leia is working on every ship, every round of the game. She costs the same as Tarkin, and works pretty much identically to him (he gives every ship the same token, she allows the gain of a token matching your dial.)

I mean I did say that the one had nothing to do with the other.

10 hours ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

The card doesn't read:

"Treat this command as if you [ALSO] spent a squadron command."

I rest my case.

Why "also" would be needed?

As long as nothing prevent me from resolving several commands (no matter if spending dials or tokens) I don't need a clarification.

If your interpretation were right, that is not, why ffg wrote it like C Leia to make it like SFO instead of writing as a Liason what you are actually reading.

It is as easy and clear as Mad already posted. You are just resolving another command discarding Pursuant. In the same way tokens allow you to resolve another commands, Pursuant does the same. The only difference is that tokens are tokens and their specific effect is provided by the RRG and Pursuant is an upgrade so the effect must be provided by the upgrade.

13 hours ago, TheEasternKing said:

it can be stopped by your opponent exhausting the card before you can use it.

No it can't.

On 5/26/2017 at 4:44 PM, Ardaedhel said:

No it can't.

My bad I thought it was an exhaust to use.

On 5/25/2017 at 3:08 PM, Warlord Zepnick said:

The card doesn't read:

"Treat this command as if you [ALSO] spent a squadron command."

I rest my case.

It doesn't need to, because if it just changed your command to a Squadron command it would be worded identically to Wing Commander.

18 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

It doesn't need to, because if it just changed your command to a Squadron command it would be worded identically to Wing Commander.

It's possible, but it seems a bit lazy to do this from a game designer's perspective.

I was under the impression that the rules only allow a ship to resolve the effect of a command dial and/or token during its activation phase.

I believe @Madaghmire alluded to something about there being nothing in the rules currently that precludes you from resolving multiple command dials (e.g. 2 with pursuant) during a ship's activation phase. If that is true, we have entered new waters. The word "precedent" gets thrown out a lot in this sub, and there is certainly no precedent for Pursuant (to my knowledge).

For the record, I hope Pursuant allows you to do this.

Pursuant allows you to do that.

Nothing prevented you from spend two dials. It was just impossible for you to do that as you cannot reveal more than once.

The rules are clear.

You reveal 1 dial. Then resolve as many command as you wish spending as many tokens or dials as you wish. There are just a few limitations:

- you cannot resolve the same command twice.

- you can only have one copy of each command token.

- you cannot have more tokens than command value.

- the effect of a command depends on spending a dial, a token or both. There are not effect for other permutations.

Those limitations indirectly prevent you from spending more than one dial/token of each command but nothing prevent you directly from that. In fact they dont prevent you from spending several tokens of different commands. Now, with pursuant we have the first thing that makes possible to "spend" several dials of different commands.

Pursuant doesn't say that you change or do anything with your actual dial and its already set command.
The squadron command you are allowed to use comes from the upgrade card, not the dial. Therefore there is no impediment there to use both the squadron command granted by Pursuant (which is treated as a dial command, meaning you can activate up to 4 squadrons or 5 if you have EHB), and spending the dial revealed to resolve its (different to squadron) command effect.

9 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Pursuant allows you to do that.

Nothing prevented you from spend two dials. It was just impossible for you to do that as you cannot reveal more than once.

The rules are clear.

You reveal 1 dial. Then resolve as many command as you wish spending as many tokens or dials as you wish. There are just a few limitations:

- you cannot resolve the same command twice.

- you can only have one copy of each command token.

- you cannot have more tokens than command value.

- the effect of a command depends on spending a dial, a token or both. There are not effect for other permutations.

Those limitations indirectly prevent you from spending more than one dial/token of each command but nothing prevent you directly from that. In fact they dont prevent you from spending several tokens of different commands. Now, with pursuant we have the first thing that makes possible to "spend" several dials of different commands.

Yep. After looking at it closer, I agree.

Unless I'm mistaken the game has always had the words "...may use a (insert thing name here)" the "a" means only one of them. The RRG say " a command dial and a command token". This holds true for such cards as Admonition, and a few others that I know are there but don't readily come to mind right now.

I'm looking forward to running her anyway, and I'd love her to stack with an existing token, but I find that incredibly unlikely given FFG's history. And no, I'm not just saying that because I think the universe will automatically try to prove me wrong, I swear I'm not!

8 hours ago, Admiral Theia said:

Unless I'm mistaken the game has always had the words "...may use a (insert thing name here)" the "a" means only one of them. The RRG say " a command dial and a command token". This holds true for such cards as Admonition, and a few others that I know are there but don't readily come to mind right now.

I'm looking forward to running her anyway, and I'd love her to stack with an existing token, but I find that incredibly unlikely given FFG's history. And no, I'm not just saying that because I think the universe will automatically try to prove me wrong, I swear I'm not!

You are correct - but that also comes with the Caveat that Upgrade cards override the Rulebook where there is a discrepency... For example, its been demonstrated that one of the Title Cards for the Quasar would allow you to resolve two separate Dials in a single turn...

Its just that we don't have a precedence for it, and we don't have a guideline for doing it - at least two separate dials (rather than combining two identical dials into one) is easy to parse out what happens

Returning to the question of General Organa, is it possible to have a command dial, take a token with Raymus that is banked for later (specifically considering the Pelta 's Fleet Command thingies here, nowhere else I can think of is relevant), and still spend the dial as if it is dial+token? I don't see why that wouldn't work, but I want to check before assuming.

5 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Returning to the question of General Organa, is it possible to have a command dial, take a token with Raymus that is banked for later (specifically considering the Pelta 's Fleet Command thingies here, nowhere else I can think of is relevant), and still spend the dial as if it is dial+token? I don't see why that wouldn't work, but I want to check before assuming.

Yes. Gaining the Token has nothing to do with resolving commands itself, and the restriction to gaining the bonus for the Fleet commander is is not resolving another command .

So perfectly legal to gain a token through Raymus), and still spend the dial to get Dial+Token with Leia.

The question, of course, remains if you're going to be Dial+Token+Token attempting or not...

But Raymus giving you a free token can be a good way to charge up the Fleet Commands, for example.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

Yes. Gaining the Token has nothing to do with resolving commands itself, and the restriction to gaining the bonus for the Fleet commander is is not resolving another command .

So perfectly legal to gain a token through Raymus), and still spend the dial to get Dial+Token with Leia.

The question, of course, remains if you're going to be Dial+Token+Token attempting or not...

But Raymus giving you a free token can be a good way to charge up the Fleet Commands, for example.

Excellent. I have a WIP version of a Rebel dreadnought list (I'm not convinced it's as viable as the Imperial version, less raw objective control, more, but spaced regen) that has Garm, but it occurred to me Leia is a free three shields if she works that way (as I asked). Thanks Dras.

8 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

You are correct - but that also comes with the Caveat that Upgrade cards override the Rulebook where there is a discrepency... For example, its been demonstrated that one of the Title Cards for the Quasar would allow you to resolve two separate Dials in a single turn...

Its just that we don't have a precedence for it, and we don't have a guideline for doing it - at least two separate dials (rather than combining two identical dials into one) is easy to parse out what happens

Well of course the card rules overrule the rulebook. It's only on the second page of the darn RRG. :-P

Two dials is not the same as two tokens, AND, that pesky "a" is not a factor in the quasar card. Yes, we are in new waters, but I still think that precedent really tells us FFG's thoughts on this, in that "a" has always meant one and only one when used in this context. Things that say discard a command token , or exhaust a defense token have always meant you could only utilize one, and I just don't see that changing for this Leia, and the Quasar's wording has no bearing on that, I think.