prior to impvets i never really put much praise on the bomber. Stats for price was awesome, dial isnt too shabby, but the name pilots were WAY too expensive and low PS w/o deadeye has issues with ordnance.

Post impvets i love those things. I havnt ran them in a few weeks but i ran 2 decked out GammaVets and a LW/SD Ryad for quite awhile. People would be determined to remove the bombers because if they fired their homing missiles and dropped their protons something was hurting, all the while Ryad just mopped everyone up. The alpha usually removed ANY ship i felt was a threat to Ryad right off the bat.

On 3/16/2017 at 2:38 AM, Blail Blerg said:

This still looks fun. But I'm not buying 4 Punishers just to ahve a joust list.

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Collision Detector (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Collision Detector (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Collision Detector (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Collision Detector (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I knew my 4 punishers were going to serve me a purpose, beyond just sitting around and being beautiful, one day.

41 minutes ago, benskywalker said:

I knew my 4 punishers were going to serve me a purpose, beyond just sitting around and being beautiful, one day.

There is always this mission....

Punish them! A Tie Punisher mission

1 hour ago, Plainsman said:

I have SEVEN! I was running SIX at 150pts and then Imp Vets came out! LOL!

Mhmm, that just made my morning. I still remember how everybody at the store thought I was insane for having four of them. Probably been my most expensive list money wise in my quest to make them good.

7 hours ago, TheRealStarkiller said:

I find it a bit disturbing that Palp can't be used with the Unguided Rockets.

Technically the force should still be able to guide them.

And Jonus? I always had the impression that his skill is about leadership? In the case of Unguided Rockets his leadership fails?

They are vong rockets.

3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

OK....I just want to dispute one thing here. You say that the missile attack is inferior to a straight up R1 attack "most" of the time. I get that you can't modify it via TL, but...you only get one action a round and you can either Focus or TL. They are both about the same or close enough that I don't care that one's ever so slightly better. Carnor is out there, but do you see him in most games? Bumping is a problem, but does that happen most of the time? There are different synergies you can do that would allow you to modify an attack...if you have that in your list, but do most lists do? I get that there are some things out there that would negate it, but.....I wouldn't say that they are a factor "most" of the time. Most of the time you won't have these things going on and you will be firing with your 3 missile attacks.

The missile attack is straight up inferior to a 3 dice primary attack in every circumstance except at range 3 where the secondary attack won't grant a bonus. That is MOST of the time. Add in that it can be shut off by bumping, stress, Jax or other abilities that exist or may come, the percentage of the time that it will outgun a 3 dice primary is quite small.

Sorry if my explanation was confusing; the internet has been eating my posts and it's quite infuriating!

6 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

The missile attack is straight up inferior to a 3 dice primary attack in every circumstance except at range 3 where the secondary attack won't grant a bonus. That is MOST of the time. Add in that it can be shut off by bumping, stress, Jax or other abilities that exist or may come, the percentage of the time that it will outgun a 3 dice primary is quite small.

Sorry if my explanation was confusing; the internet has been eating my posts and it's quite infuriating!

Not really, only when you have the ability to stack modifications. For plain one action jousters it is the same at range 2, slightly better at 3 and worse at 1. And it can be shut down, but the firepower is there.

6 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

The missile attack is straight up inferior to a 3 dice primary attack in every circumstance except at range 3 where the secondary attack won't grant a bonus. That is MOST of the time. Add in that it can be shut off by bumping, stress, Jax or other abilities that exist or may come, the percentage of the time that it will outgun a 3 dice primary is quite small.

Sorry if my explanation was confusing; the internet has been eating my posts and it's quite infuriating!

I'm really kind of splitting hairs, but I think it matters a bit. I'd say that there are a number of times when R1 main guns are better than the Rockets. There are a very few times when it's better to have the Rockets than main guns at R1 (Sensor Jammer or things that modify attack dice). The majority of the time they are identical. Most Imperial lists don't really use synergy that often and you really have to plan on adding that in for your list to work. So...if you were planning in some sort of token passing or action passing thing into your list, I can see that you don't want the Rockets so much. That's OK. Most people aren't really doing that with Imperial lists, though. Yes, bumping is bad and Jax is bad, but you then really just use your main guns. It's not really crippling unless it's happening EVERY round.

It's really more the issue that MOST of the time they are inferior when I see it as most of the time they are the same. Po-tay-toe....po-tah-toe. Not really a big issue. It's just a very boring day at work and I can find the time to present my point.

It still requires a focus token and can only be modded by that focus token and is shut off by game mechanics. That makes it INFERIOR; but I'll take a potato.

I actually really like them for 2 points on bombers and some punishers, but it's less flexible than a 3 dice primary for an Aggressor- It's an xwing that could lose it's 3 dice primary or a less durable tie advanced. Neither of those ships are really tearing things up but I've seen a number of posts saying "it's a great 3 dice attacker" and it isn't even as good as the ships that carry "that statline" we already have at similar costs. It can be built cheaper but would a rookie pilot with a gun that can shut off be worth 19pts?

My take is that these unguided rockets are indeed worse than a regular 3D attack in most circumstances.

But they seem well worth the 2 points if your attack goes up from 2 red to these 3 IMO.

6 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

It still requires a focus token and can only be modded by that focus token and is shut off by game mechanics. That makes it INFERIOR; but I'll take a potato.

I actually really like them for 2 points on bombers and some punishers, but it's less flexible than a 3 dice primary for an Aggressor- It's an xwing that could lose it's 3 dice primary or a less durable tie advanced. Neither of those ships are really tearing things up but I've seen a number of posts saying "it's a great 3 dice attacker" and it isn't even as good as the ships that carry "that statline" we already have at similar costs. It can be built cheaper but would a rookie pilot with a gun that can shut off be worth 19pts?

The thing to remember though is even if something happens at close range, which Carnor and bumping would be at, or a stress issue at longer range, you can still fall back on the primary guns which are 2 die instead of 3 and do get close range bonuses. Its not like the ships gets shut down completely. Its a significant boost to TIE Bomber, Punishers, and Aggressor's arsenal.

I just thought of something. Carnor Jax stops you from spending gaining the Focus action (in range) and prevents you from spending it. If you get your Focus before Carnor Jax is in range, you can still fire your Unguided Rockets. You just can't modify the dice. The attack requires you to have a Focus token, but you don't have to spend it. Jax prevents you from using the action or spending it. It doesn't do anything if you got the Focus outside of his range.

On 3/20/2017 at 8:56 AM, heychadwick said:

I just thought of something. Carnor Jax stops you from spending gaining the Focus action (in range) and prevents you from spending it. If you get your Focus before Carnor Jax is in range, you can still fire your Unguided Rockets. You just can't modify the dice. The attack requires you to have a Focus token, but you don't have to spend it. Jax prevents you from using the action or spending it. It doesn't do anything if you got the Focus outside of his range.

And most of the pilots you'd want to put Unguided Rockets on will have a lower Pilot Skill than Carnor Jax, so this is likely to come up.

On the other hand, if Carnor is at Range 1 during your activation and later moves away, you can't fire your missiles or modify your primary weapon attack (well, not with Focus--you could Target Lock instead, but you might be better off repositioning).

Would Cpt Jonus work with this? Like M9-G8 works with Snap Shot?

Certainly an interesting card I'm keen to try out.

Jonus, no. M9G8/Palp/etc, yes. Jonus allows you to reroll as if you were spending a target lock, where the others modify on your behalf. The keyword "you" is the definer there; it refers to the ship firing, so if another ship can modify on your behalf, you're golden.

On 20/3/2017 at 1:56 PM, heychadwick said:

I just thought of something. Carnor Jax stops you from spending gaining the Focus action (in range) and prevents you from spending it. If you get your Focus before Carnor Jax is in range, you can still fire your Unguided Rockets. You just can't modify the dice. The attack requires you to have a Focus token, but you don't have to spend it. Jax prevents you from using the action or spending it. It doesn't do anything if you got the Focus outside of his range.

Yeah I've come against this with Deadeye Bombers with Homing Missiles. Deadeye lets me fire with the focus, and Homing says I don't have to spend it. It usually takes some explanation if the person hasn't seen the interaction before, but it's fine as long as I don't spend that focus for mods.

No, actually, I don't think ANYTHING works with Rockets. It doesn't say you can't mod them, but says your attack dice cannot be modified (or rather, that weird phrasing that they can only be modified by focus for standard effect). This means any source cannot affect your dice, though this also includes the defender or any enemy ships.

Honestly, I'm thinking I'll try something like this once more info is released:

Sienar Specialist (17)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Imperial Trainee (17)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Imperial Trainee (17)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Just seems like a very satisfying squad to fly.

2 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

No, actually, I don't think ANYTHING works with Rockets. It doesn't say you can't mod them, but says your attack dice cannot be modified (or rather, that weird phrasing that they can only be modified by focus for standard effect). This means any source cannot affect your dice, though this also includes the defender or any enemy ships.

That was how I read it too

On 17.3.2017 at 5:22 PM, Admiral Deathrain said:

Not really, only when you have the ability to stack modifications. For plain one action jousters it is the same at range 2, slightly better at 3 and worse at 1. And it can be shut down, but the firepower is there.

Which bombers have, they can target lock each time they don't have a shot and focus the next turn.

if you stack modifications than even 3 dice with TL+Focus + R3 bonus are better than 3 dice with focus most of the time. The only exception is agi 3 and it is by 0.0x ;-)

Now you still have a point about one action attacks are fine with the missiles, I don't think the missiles are bad, but it clearly ain't a 3 dice primary. It worse at R1, it sometimes worse and sometimes equal at R2 and it is sometimes worse at R3 and most of the time better at R3. Does not sound overall better or even just equal, right? But the missiles are cheap, so there is that.

On 3/17/2017 at 10:01 AM, Rakky Wistol said:

... would a rookie pilot with a gun that can shut off be worth 19pts?

Actually, I think that they would be. Unguided Rockets is providing your opponent with some incentive to shoot at what is likely to be the cheapest ship in your squad.

6 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

No, actually, I don't think ANYTHING works with Rockets. It doesn't say you can't mod them, but says your attack dice cannot be modified (or rather, that weird phrasing that they can only be modified by focus for standard effect). This means any source cannot affect your dice, though this also includes the defender or any enemy ships.

You may well be right. I was going from memory and thinking you not your . Very different interpretation there. I think the nearest you can get to help from other ships in that case is someone passing you a focus to fire with.

11 hours ago, WWHSD said:

Actually, I think that they would be. Unguided Rockets is providing your opponent with some incentive to shoot at what is likely to be the cheapest ship in your squad.

If they weren't shooting at the "rookie" already, why would they now? A rookie whose jousting value goes significantly down when they turn around?

I just don't see a rookie pilot with a worse jousting efficiency in a faction with less action sharing is going to cut it.

It will almost certainly have as good a dial (which isn't great) and BR but what does it do that other ships at similar stats, at the same price point, and that have already "failed"?

42 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

If they weren't shooting at the "rookie" already, why would they now? A rookie whose jousting value goes significantly down when they turn around?

I just don't see a rookie pilot with a worse jousting efficiency in a faction with less action sharing is going to cut it.

It will almost certainly have as good a dial (which isn't great) and BR but what does it do that other ships at similar stats, at the same price point, and that have already "failed"?

Shooting at a ship with Unguided Rockets means that either they won't be modding their defense roll or they will be throwing fewer attack dice (which will probably be unmodified).

I understand that they are worse rookies. That's the point I've been trying to make.

Yes, it might be more tactically advantageous to shoot the "bad rookie" first (or still focus fire the actual dangerous thing in the list) but how many of these are you going to see once everyone figures out that they are just a bad rookie Xwing?

I hope the dial gives us a surprise and that the names pilots all have EPTs and good abilities. I hope I'm wrong but from the information we currently have it's still just a 19pt rookie pilot in an Xwing with lots of ways to lose it's red dice and BR which is yet another way it loses the "3 red dice att" that everyone says it has.

For those just wanting to cut their bombers lose

Edit: nevermind my squad builder let me do something illegal