1 minute ago, Scopes said:

What, if any, is the significance of the phrase "for standard effect"? What am I missing with that?

If there was a card that said something like "you can spend a focus token to add an additional die to your roll" or something like that it wouldn't work.

Is it really that great though? Idk. I really want it to help the Punisher and make it usable (because I don't think they will ever release it in an aces pack due to its obscurity), but I think to myself, "You could already strap on acc corrector... And that didn't do anything for it."

I guess the difference though is you get the guidance chips mod unlimited though, huh? Idk. Time will tell. Either way, I think it is a clever design and very interesting. Even if it doesn't "fix" the Punisher, it gives me hope as more munitions are released from wave to wave that it will have its day some time in the future.

Just now, Admiral Deathrain said:

Added it, good idea!

I looked at exact numbers for the Thomax + 4 Bombers list and it works at 99 points without any LWFs. I still think it looks really potent.

Don't think this fits Redline well, though. His problem is that he falls apart way too fast for 30-something points, not that his followup shots are lacking. Deathrain, though...he could benefit a lot. I used to run him like FGD (he is still missed) did with Accuracy Corrector to make his primary attack more worthwhile - this looks better at one point less or the same with Baffle. And of course with LWF.

THis is useless for Redline, his whole thing is using spend-to-fire TL ordnance and using a second tl to mod it, this is neither tl nor spend-to-fire and he can't mod it, so it's utterly worthless to him.

7 minutes ago, Moneyinvolved said:

I think the likes in this forum are over powered. FFG should nerf the likes to 25

If it's that, or they get a counter, I'll take the nerf.

At the very least, Empire will have a 18/20 points filler that can shoot 3 dice at any range and denies the extra green die at R3. It also has 6 HPs and 2/3 green dice. Not breathtaking by any measure but you get a lot of bang for your points for sure.

Punisher generics will love this but the two name pilots wont. Redline's ability is designed to let you use a TL on an attack that spent a TL already, unless they let us doublefire ordnance or add dice to the ordnance shot i doubt he'd ever become viable on that frame. Deathrain could use it but hes already pricy doing bomb stuff, usually if i use him i dont even take ordnance because he dies SO FAST trying to use those bombs.

For bombers, this is right up there with the Striker for filler points. 20pts nets you a Striker with LWF (talking the generics w/o ept) with the cost of allowing R3 bonus for the AA tricks, while Bomber denies R3 but is nowhere near as nimble.
Thats purely up to flavor as to which would be better. Theres also a 2hp difference....

2 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Is it really that great though? Idk. I really want it to help the Punisher and make it usable (because I don't think they will ever release it in an aces pack due to its obscurity), but I think to myself, "You could already strap on acc corrector... And that didn't do anything for it."

I guess the difference though is you get the guidance chips mod unlimited though, huh? Idk. Time will tell. Either way, I think it is a clever design and very interesting. Even if it doesn't "fix" the Punisher, it gives me hope as more munitions are released from wave to wave that it will have its day some time in the future.

Sadly (or fortunately) you don't get Chips, since the dice can only be modified via Focus.

Hotshot has been mentioned earlier in this thread and I hadn't thought of it, yet. Looks like a weakness, but it will only weaken one ship. Definitly a bit of a roadblock for single Rocket carriers.

Just now, Admiral Deathrain said:

Sadly (or fortunately) you don't get Chips, since the dice can only be modified via Focus.

Hotshot has been mentioned earlier in this thread and I hadn't thought of it, yet. Looks like a weakness, but it will only weaken one ship. Definitly a bit of a roadblock for single Rocket carriers.

Oh man. Ya didn't consider that restriction applying to G chips. Ya that's... rough. Not sure I'm buying in at all in that case.

Will have to play around with it though.

Just now, Admiral Deathrain said:

Sadly (or fortunately) you don't get Chips, since the dice can only be modified via Focus.

Hotshot has been mentioned earlier in this thread and I hadn't thought of it, yet. Looks like a weakness, but it will only weaken one ship. Definitly a bit of a roadblock for single Rocket carriers.

Or two, with Gunner... It's probably not common enough though to impinge THAT much. You lose a die which is nasty but gain the ability to use other mods. It's not like R5P9 where you basically kill the ship by using HotCoP.

41 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Part of me really wants this for my A-Wings, but I understand why that would be a bad idea.

I also wish it could be on A-Wings, but alas it would make Z-95's unstoppable.

I think Deathrain is the clearest candidate for the Unguided Rockets, as far as Punishers go - he's not likely to have Fire Control anyway (since Enhanced Scopes or Advanced Sensors better fit his role), and it allows him to be a little stingier with ordnance (perhaps just one bomb type and Extra Munitions) while still contributing after they are used. I'm not sure about the generics - giving them LWF encourages using focus for defence which means you won't have it for the rockets, so I'd probably skip it and go for a comparatively cheap potential 3-dice attack on a very sturdy chassis for 23pts. Certainly worth trying out, in any case.

While few ships can actually make use of the rockets, the fact that the ones that can will definitely gain something from them is encouraging.

One interesting variation of the 5x Bomber list would be to spend the last 10 points on Flechette Torpedoes and Long Range Sensors instead of LWF (or have a mix). That way you can drop serious stress on a problem target, or just have a 3-dice shot for when you don't have a Focus, but are holding onto a TL.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

Or two, with Gunner... It's probably not common enough though to impinge THAT much. You lose a die which is nasty but gain the ability to use other mods. It's not like R5P9 where you basically kill the ship by using HotCoP.

That is true. And reminds me that Rocket Bombers that don't have LWF should take LRS so they can have some modiifications for free in case of losing their focus or K-Turning.

11 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Is it really that great though? Idk. I really want it to help the Punisher and make it usable (because I don't think they will ever release it in an aces pack due to its obscurity), but I think to myself, "You could already strap on acc corrector... And that didn't do anything for it."

I see what you're saying, and you might be right, but Unguided Rockets are cheaper, don't allow a Range 3 bonus, and can actually get 3 hits, all of which are significant upgrades to AC.

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

What about this one for a Snapshot list? Are the additional dice worth it over the fifth A-Wing and Crackshots?

7 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Theres also a 2hp difference....

This. Striker is nice and potentially more nimble (though also sometimes cumbersome with ailerons) but 2 HPs extra with exactly the same defence is huge.

4 minutes ago, MalusCalibur said:

I think Deathrain is the clearest candidate for the Unguided Rockets, as far as Punishers go - he's not likely to have Fire Control anyway (since Enhanced Scopes or Advanced Sensors better fit his role), and it allows him to be a little stingier with ordnance (perhaps just one bomb type and Extra Munitions) while still contributing after they are used. I'm not sure about the generics - giving them LWF encourages using focus for defence which means you won't have it for the rockets, so I'd probably skip it and go for a comparatively cheap potential 3-dice attack on a very sturdy chassis for 23pts. Certainly worth trying out, in any case.

While few ships can actually make use of the rockets, the fact that the ones that can will definitely gain something from them is encouraging.

Trouble is Deathrain really wants action bombs, so without ExpInt which makes him super costly, he's not going to be using this much..

6 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Or two, with Gunner... It's probably not common enough though to impinge THAT much. You lose a die which is nasty but gain the ability to use other mods. It's not like R5P9 where you basically kill the ship by using HotCoP.

Yeah, and they're durable ships, so the probably expensive HSCP carrier is doing damage to a single ship, maybe, in exchange for reduced fire coming in. That leaves either 3 more bombers or the ships bombers are supporting free to do their thing.

3 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)

What about this one for a Snapshot list? Are the additional dice worth it over the fifth A-Wing and Crackshots?

What about Crack Shot, and some points for something else?

Or way better, Operations Specialist on one of them as a TIE Shuttle to feed Focus tokens.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Trouble is Deathrain really wants action bombs, so without ExpInt which makes him super costly, he's not going to be using this much..

Well, yes, but the idea is that the Unguided Rockets are used after his bombs are expended - granted he may not live that long, but for 2pts on otherwise unused slots, I think there's potential for it to be worthwhile. Also, sometimes he won't be in a position to use a bomb, particularly early on in the game, and the rockets would give him some punch then as well.

if youre going snap-span you REALLY want an OpSpec in there somewhere.

I ran 4 SnapBlack TIEs and an OpSpec/Tactician Snap Rhymer at a local tourny and seriously the focus feeding is insane lol. You either do damage with snap, or get a focus. So i evaded almost every time lol

36 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

The Rocket/LWF Scimitar for 20 points seems like a terrific jouster. Similar to the Delta/x7, but at a different point level. 5, 3+ ace, 2+ RAC, all are good.

In the 5-swarm, it seems like it completely out classes other historic jousting lists like BBBBZ or TIE Swarm, because of that extra AGI.

I wonder how it would fare in a head-to-head with a conventional TIE swarm, since LWF wouldn't always be triggering

Just now, MalusCalibur said:

Well, yes, but the idea is that the Unguided Rockets are used after his bombs are expended - granted he may not live that long, but for 2pts on otherwise unused slots, I think there's potential for it to be worthwhile. Also, sometimes he won't be in a position to use a bomb, particularly early on in the game, and the rockets would give him some punch then as well.

When is Deathrain ever alive to even get off all of his bombs?

Punisher's main issue is he HAS to joust to do anything and he has a horrible, horrible statline and dial to joust. 9hp behind 1agi means nothing when theres multiple 4-5 die RELIABLE attacks flying at you.

1 minute ago, MalusCalibur said:

Well, yes, but the idea is that the Unguided Rockets are used after his bombs are expended - granted he may not live that long, but for 2pts on otherwise unused slots, I think there's potential for it to be worthwhile. Also, sometimes he won't be in a position to use a bomb, particularly early on in the game, and the rockets would give him some punch then as well.

The idea that deathrain will manage to expend all his bombs and still shoot is cute.

It might be useful on the closing turns or ones where a bomb isn't useful though, but is that worth the points?

Just now, Biophysical said:

What about Crack Shot, and some points for something else?

Or way better, Operations Specialist on one of them as a TIE Shuttle to feed Focus tokens.

Oh I like that, Snapshot to generate more focus so you can also use it on Defense! What to do with the 6 leftover points, though?