As the title indicates, when is a good time to throw in the towel? One good butt whipping? Only if it doesn't succeed against a meta-list? How much do you factor in your skill vs the opponent's skill vs the strength of the list?

I know, I know: fly what you like and all that. But can't there be a mix of like and good?

I flew an all A wing list from when it was first released and constantly tinkered with it, even up to getting Chard refit....maybe I'm just a stubborn mule but I will work a list til the cows come home if I feel it's worth it

Asssuming it's a list that I've put some reasonable thought into, about three to five straight defeats.

This is factoring in loss margin; difference in opponents lists; my overall positioning and performance and the actual tabletop synergy of the list compared to how I thought it would be on paper.

I try to strecth the games to five when I can because ultimately the dice really let me down. Like, A LOT.

17 minutes ago, Rolotamasi said:

As the title indicates, when is a good time to throw in the towel? One good butt whipping? Only if it doesn't succeed against a meta-list? How much do you factor in your skill vs the opponent's skill vs the strength of the list?

I know, I know: fly what you like and all that. But can't there be a mix of like and good?

I usually only stop flying lists when it's clear that they will lose to list archetypes where nothing short of wide dice disparity will prevent it.

When I'm not winning and I'm not having fun trying to.

2 minutes ago, Sk3tch said:

When I'm not winning and I'm not having fun trying to.

This is some good advice.

Also just because you lose 1st time doesn't mean it is a bad list. You should try it at least a few times in my mind against different things.

I give up too soon, like sometimes after just one bad loss. Lately I have been trying to keep the focus on which ships I think I will enjoy flying more than others and try to stick with them for a little longer.

Ironically enough I had just decided I would really like to practice and play Parattani (because it seemed like a fun and versatile build, besides being a proven winner of course) the week before they nerfed Manaroo. I think Im going to stick with it for a bit though and try to more patient, because that build should still be good and maybe in some ways more fun because there will be less of it because of the nerf.

I have the worst case of list-ADHD and give up on a list when I think of the next one

Sometimes it takes a while to see a list shine. One of the biggest things some people forget or don't know, is how rock placement can effect your list or your opponents list. Also set up and approach.

I tend to have a lot of time on my hands lately - work has really slowed down - and so I usually get in a few games with a list before I throw it at someone. I don't really count those, though, as real tests, and so when they finally face another opponent I give them just one, good (bad?) roflstomping to abandon them. If the loss is close, I'll give them another chance, but if they can't manage one win in three games, I'm out. Which is why my squadbuilder has something like 60 lists: not enough opponents! And the StarViper. So many losses, but I just can't quit that thing.

11 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

I have the worst case of list-ADHD and give up on a list when I think of the next one

The Admiral has the right idea. Free time and a list building app on my smartphone is a killer.

That, and when I buy a new ship.

I rarely fly the same list twice. I don't get to play that often ( a couple of time a month usually) so I am always wanting to try out new ships and/or combos.

I think that after even after 1 or 2 battles you are able to decide if you like the distinct play style of your list or not. If you dont, you stop and find something different.

If you do, then I usually play around with the upgrades inorder to maximise certain characteristics that I like about the list. But importantly, you have to work out what are your counters to the different archetypes of lists you may face (Aces, Defenders, Stressers, Swarms, Meta in your area etc.) Do you have an answer to those? What is your worst-matchup? How do you handle that? Then you bring it to the table, and if you have done your "homework" - the list should almost immidiately start giving you some wins - and be fun to play. If it does not, then I move on. I recently made a new list (which is hugely fun to play), where I even ended up taking one "subobtimale" upgrade, simply because it is optimal against my worst-matchup.

Also I very rarely play net-lists, as I prefer to play my own. But as new player, you should once in a while try one of them out. Simply because you will learn how a well-thought-out list actually works, and this experience will prove useful as a "future reference" when building your own list.

1 hour ago, Moneyinvolved said:

Sometimes it takes a while to see a list shine. One of the biggest things some people forget or don't know, is how rock placement can effect your list or your opponents list. Also set up and approach.

This is a great point. Knowing which obstacles to bring and where to place them can really change how your list flies.

2 hours ago, Rolotamasi said:

As the title indicates, when is a good time to throw in the towel? One good butt whipping? Only if it doesn't succeed against a meta-list? How much do you factor in your skill vs the opponent's skill vs the strength of the list?

I know, I know: fly what you like and all that. But can't there be a mix of like and good?

I fly a list (or keep it in my back pocket) until something just goes horribly wrong and there isnt much to fix in terms of upgrades or flying ability.

Example:

About 8-9months ago I flew Vrill + ABT + Zeb along with three A-wings each with crackshot + adaptability + autothrusters.

I played a couple games against lists like Inquisitor/Ryad/OL and Manaroo/Brobot B/Ndru mindlinked. I wiped the floor against those lists. The ABT melted Aces along with crackshot. I was feeling good about my list until I played a game where Vrill went down really early in the game, my crackshots were spent, and Ryad solo'd my last couple awings cause they cant get through her defense. Next game was against Brobots. Again, Vrill went down early, I struggled to take down one Brobot, and my last two awings just couldnt put enough damage through fast enough for the second brobot.

I retired the list because once Vrill is taken out early, my list falls apart. However, there has been a resurgence in the force, and snapshot has given new life to Awings as well as blocking defenders in the new FAQ. So I have been thinking about bringing the list out of retirement.

I usually swap a ship or a mod at a time until slowly the list morphs into an existing netlist. And then I start over again.

When I get bored with it. Which usually means after the first time I run it at a tournament

I've run Paratanni at 2 tournaments now, and those 15 games (including a Vassal game and a practice game for Naboo to help a local) are the most I've ever clocked with a list. I'm trying very hard to convince myself to stick with a variation of it for Naboo, because it's a) good and b) fun, but part of my brain is screaming that it's not c) new.

There are so many other lists I want to try!

When I fly it right, without making mistakes, and still lose. That's when I know a list isn't worth taking out of the bag again.

Usually though, I'll still play it one more time just in case.

Jacob

On average, after about 20 minutes of the first game of my first tournament using it.

I usually play a squad once or twice before moving on.

5 hours ago, Procastination said:

Asssuming it's a list that I've put some reasonable thought into, about three to five straight defeats.

This is factoring in loss margin; difference in opponents lists; my overall positioning and performance and the actual tabletop synergy of the list compared to how I thought it would be on paper.

I try to strecth the games to five when I can because ultimately the dice really let me down. Like, A LOT.

This. If the list is working out the way I envisioned it in my head, and it's had some close losses, I'll keep at it. When it's not working out the way I envisioned, then I'll quickly scrap it. Or if it's working the way I envisioned and it's just getting stomped, then it's probably not going to work (for me at least). There's plenty of tweaking that can go into how a list is flown that can take a marginal loss and with practice, turn it into a win. But typically you can't take a ROFL-stomp loss into a win just by practice.

5 hours ago, Sk3tch said:

When I'm not winning and I'm not having fun trying to.

I try to do this without being too ADHD about it. If I like the playstyle of a list it's not super easy to put me off of it.

There is something to be said; that if you haven't played a list quite a lot there are some instinctual lessons that are hard to learn. At some point you should learn something new about a list after 10+ games that is an eye opener. If you keep jumping around you can miss out on some deep strategic and tactical revelations. It's kind of hard to explain.

When I post it online and it doesn't become the next netdeck. :V

When the crushing defeats outweigh my glee of fielding a list with a Bwing as the fulcrum.

Then I play Miranda and something beefy and wreck for awhile. Then back to trying to prove bwings are competitive even though I know they're not.

I'm constantly list-building and have so many saved up to try... Still, I sometime play the same build several times when I really like it (not only because it's winning). So generally, I keep trying new stuff.

Also, I don't understand playing the same exact build over and over. I know practice makes perfect (sometimes) but it's not for me. I would find that so boring. I may play some pilots regularly, but not whole lists.

When you're tweaking it and a ny other addition or different ship makes the list better.

I retired this list:

VI Vessery x7

2 Upsilons with FCS.

I coulda swapped the 2nd Upsilon for anything else and it woulda been a better list. Thus, time to stop that one.

I also retired

RAC Upsilon TieFighter

Cuz this one also, just wasn't that great vs the meta squads. Fun but not competitive in the least , so thats why it has to go.