2 minutes ago, RookiePilot said:

Perhaps part of the sales issue is that the game is one and done. There isn't even a dice expansion for it, and I don't see any reasonable room for expansions.

I miss the good old days when board games didn't have an expansion coming out every other month. A lot of games don't need it, but they keep making them anyway, so I'm sure they will find a way to add an expansion to Rebellion.

13 minutes ago, netherspirit1982 said:

I miss the good old days when board games didn't have an expansion coming out every other month. A lot of games don't need it, but they keep making them anyway, so I'm sure they will find a way to add an expansion to Rebellion.

I'm sure they will, and I'm sure I'll buy it anyway

Star Wars collectors don't want to be fed. They want to hunt. You can't just suppress 65 million years of expansion collecting instinct.

Or is that T-Rexs...?

Poor T Rex, collected one too many rocks.....

18 hours ago, HoodieDM said:

Thats completely wrong tho. Look at Rebellion that just came out months before that. The game is not good and has done terrible in sales. Just bc it has SW in it, doesnt mean that its going to be great.

~D

First time in my area (Dallas/Fort Worth) that I have heard Rebellion is a bad game. Every one I talk to about it said they love it. I know it was expensive to buy into, but since it has been a success, they are making an expansion for it

37 minutes ago, Rogue 4 said:

First time in my area (Dallas/Fort Worth) that I have heard Rebellion is a bad game. Every one I talk to about it said they love it. I know it was expensive to buy into, but since it has been a success, they are making an expansion for it

I hadn't heard anything about an expansion. Would you happen to have any more info?

Rebellion definitely has some design flaws. At the end of the day, the Rebel player can win on accident and have a terrible time doing so.

On 3/15/2017 at 2:23 PM, DailyRich said:

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that FFG both thought the pre-orders were "abysmal" and yet did the largest print run of any game ever with it. Why would you print a game you thought was DOA in such large numbers? And if you did, why did it vanish within days?

The initial massive print run was done well before any pre-orders took place -- remember there is a 6 month lead time from order product from the printers to getting into distributors hands. Since the pre-orders were abysmal this led to FFG not ordering MORE awakenings in NOV when they had the chance -- instead they began printing SoR.

Basically they thought their initial print run would be enough to satisfy the demand based on the intial poor pre-order numbers.

1 hour ago, pstalker said:

Since the pre-orders were abysmal this led to FFG not ordering MORE awakenings in NOV when they had the chance -- instead they began printing SoR.

Did anyone actually say this? I don't remember seeing it in the video. Sounds like more apologist fantasy, honestly.

1 hour ago, Buhallin said:

Did anyone actually say this? I don't remember seeing it in the video. Sounds like more apologist fantasy, honestly.

And this sounds incredibly bitter and totally unwarranted.

Try watching from around the 1 minute mark of the video to the 4 minute mark for your answer.

1 hour ago, Starbane said:

And this sounds incredibly bitter and totally unwarranted.

Try watching from around the 1 minute mark of the video to the 4 minute mark for your answer.

OK, I rewatched it again just to be sure - and sure enough, the idea that the bad preorders did anything to delay an Awakenings reprint is not even suggested.

So did it sound bitter? Sure. But unwarranted? Not really. I'm sick of the apologists basically making things up out of whole cloth to try and excuse what happened with the distribution. It's been happening for months now, with fictional excuses offered up as fact. The video helpfully provided an insight and while FFG screwed up, it's at least understandable. But "understandable mistake" isn't good enough for the fanboys, nothing could possibly be FFG's fault, so this idea that they TOTALLY would have reprinted Awakenings sooner if not for all the bad preorders is invented from nothing.

I mean really, when it's speculation that's one thing, but we now have a pretty detailed explanation of what happened - and people STILL invent stuff. The fanboy base around here has been nothing but abusive and dishonest from the very beginning, and yeah, I'm tired of it. So sure, bitter, but not even a little but unwarranted.

People are not making excuses for FFG's success on this game. It sold out, congrats to them. This lead to a supply issue, one they addressed. What people are tried of is the endless whining about the supply issues and the vilification of a game company having a successful product. Seriously, it is a game, it is sold out, get over it already. If this was badly needed medicine during an out break, then yeah, this level of complaining is absolutely necessary. For a game? Get some perspective. SoR will be out in May, more Awakenings in June. Issue is over with until they run out again in June. Continued bitching won't change their current plans.

To paraphrase.

He said that the preorders in November were so bad that they were uncertain about moving forward with SoR, although ultimately they did because they thought it was a good product and for the game to have a chance they had to move forward with SoR.

Then it took off like a run away train, and by late December they had the new problem of trying to figure out how to reprint Awakenings because they were deep into the manufacture of SoR and it takes 6 months to bring the product to market and they had the additional consideration of the Chinese New Year.

At this point the production team had to move heaven and earth to expand the manufactureing capabilities of their suppliers to facilitate an Awakenings reprint.

To sum it up, they didn't have the production capacity to print SoR and reprint Awakenings at the same time. By the time they knew the game was successful and they had a shortage of Awakenings, SoR was too far along to quit printing. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say had they known in November what they new in December they could have moved sooner. Clearly they are willing to print more Awakenings and are trying as hard as they can to get it here as fast as they can.

It seems to me that most people on these forums are willing to admit FFG made a mistake in predicting the demand for the game. However, certain posters seem unsatisfied with that and would prefer an angry mob with pitchforks storming the gates of FFG even though they ordered the biggest print run in company history.

Mistakes happen. Get over it and quit being so angry and prone to attack FFG and fellow posters who aren't mad about it.

That's not even close to what he said, or what I responded to. I mean, it's not like this is a game of Telephone. His words are RIGHT THERE. I'm not sure if it's just a lack of reading comprehension skills, or if everything goes through a "make FFG awesome" filter on its way to your brain, but come on...

Edit: Look, I'll admit I'm very frustrated by this. The low preorder numbers have always been held up as a sort of mystical boogeyman that shifted the blame from FFG. Originally it was because the low preorders caused them to print less. The GAMA presentation clarified that the original print run had nothing at all to do with the preorders. Now it's somehow the cause of the late reprint - that they totally would have started reprinting Awakenings earlier if it weren't for the low preorders. Except that the presentation doesn't even hint at that. It's nothing but the apologists continuing to hold onto their boogeyman because otherwise they'd have to admit that FFG screwed up.

And I continue to think they did. The print run size points to them trying, and that's good. But at least in my area, the playerbase doesn't feel like it's working off their biggest print run ever. They designed a game with a massive chase element to it, and did so intentionally in order to push people to buy more. IMHO they underestimated what that chase element would mean for the supply of the game. We'll see if they fix it with SoR - the chase obviously isn't going away, but maybe they'll print enough to cover it. Maybe.

But in the meantime, we know enough to deal with the reality, and I'm tired of apologists inventing things to fit their blame-shifting. The presentation actually lays out things that put FFG in a pretty reasonable light - that while they could and even should have done better, their choices were reasonable. That should be enough without inventing things that are clearly contradicted by the very open presentation.

36 minutes ago, Mep said:

People are not making excuses for FFG's success on this game. It sold out, congrats to them. This lead to a supply issue, one they addressed. What people are tried of is the endless whining about the supply issues and the vilification of a game company having a successful product. Seriously, it is a game, it is sold out, get over it already. If this was badly needed medicine during an out break, then yeah, this level of complaining is absolutely necessary. For a game? Get some perspective. SoR will be out in May, more Awakenings in June. Issue is over with until they run out again in June. Continued bitching won't change their current plans.

yes they are making excuses, blaming on low preorder is an EXCUSE, this is there first set is an EXCUSE, there new to the tcg is an EXCUSE, it's there game is an EXCUSE, I am sure there is more but who has time for that?

34 minutes ago, Starbane said:

To paraphrase.

He said that the preorders in November were so bad that they were uncertain about moving forward with SoR, although ultimately they did because they thought it was a good product and for the game to have a chance they had to move forward with SoR.

Then it took off like a run away train, and by late December they had the new problem of trying to figure out how to reprint Awakenings because they were deep into the manufacture of SoR and it takes 6 months to bring the product to market and they had the additional consideration of the Chinese New Year.

At this point the production team had to move heaven and earth to expand the manufactureing capabilities of their suppliers to facilitate an Awakenings reprint.

To sum it up, they didn't have the production capacity to print SoR and reprint Awakenings at the same time. By the time they knew the game was successful and they had a shortage of Awakenings, SoR was too far along to quit printing. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say had they known in November what they new in December they could have moved sooner. Clearly they are willing to print more Awakenings and are trying as hard as they can to get it here as fast as they can.

It seems to me that most people on these forums are willing to admit FFG made a mistake in predicting the demand for the game. However, certain posters seem unsatisfied with that and would prefer an angry mob with pitchforks storming the gates of FFG even though they ordered the biggest print run in company history.

Mistakes happen. Get over it and quit being so angry and prone to attack FFG and fellow posters who aren't mad about it.

every time they acknowledge they make a mistake they end it with but.. which a wise man said means forget everything I just said this is what i actually meant. They did not send out enough to support a CCG that is fact and proven with the lack of product on selves.

7 hours ago, Amanal said:

going to beat it until it stops getting back up

Lol I truly believe you will

Maybe I have not been paying attention for the last 20 years or so. But I have never seen TCG/CCG product shortage like this. Also I think pre-orders are a big issue with new games. Maybe not for vendors but for customers. Gone are the days where you can go to the game store and try a new game by buying a few packs, a starter deck, most of a box or maybe even an unopened box behind if you are lucky; one exception MTG. Just like everything else in todays world, it is all cyber now. First magazines, then CD's, music stores of all types, and soon gaming stores will all be gone. Everything is gonna be online. I blame FB. LOL.

14 hours ago, Buhallin said:

OK, I rewatched it again just to be sure - and sure enough, the idea that the bad preorders did anything to delay an Awakenings reprint is not even suggested.

So did it sound bitter? Sure. But unwarranted? Not really. I'm sick of the apologists basically making things up out of whole cloth to try and excuse what happened with the distribution. It's been happening for months now, with fictional excuses offered up as fact. The video helpfully provided an insight and while FFG screwed up, it's at least understandable. But "understandable mistake" isn't good enough for the fanboys, nothing could possibly be FFG's fault, so this idea that they TOTALLY would have reprinted Awakenings sooner if not for all the bad preorders is invented from nothing.

I mean really, when it's speculation that's one thing, but we now have a pretty detailed explanation of what happened - and people STILL invent stuff. The fanboy base around here has been nothing but abusive and dishonest from the very beginning, and yeah, I'm tired of it. So sure, bitter, but not even a little but unwarranted.

I feel that any paraphrasing would do no good so here is word for word quotes in the order in which they were said.

"It was a disastrously low number of preorders"

"The first wave came out on December 1st"

"Then it just took off like a juggernaut, it was a runaway freight train at that point, so from there we were looking at the problem because we had already started manufacturing set 2 even though with the numbers we saw in November we weren't sure if anyone really wanted it"

"we were deep in production in December already on set 2 and now we have a problem of how are we gonna reprint the first set"

From this it is easy to see that because the preorders were so low they didn't think it would sell out and therefore why run a second print of the same set? Once it sold out they said oh **** and then he explains what they did to make a second print of awakenings possible.

How is this inventing anything? this is a logistical explanation but it just seems not to be good enough for you. I am not being abusive or dishonest I understand your frustration I feel it is clouding your judgement here.

13 minutes ago, DJRAZZ said:

Maybe I have not been paying attention for the last 20 years or so. But I have never seen TCG/CCG product shortage like this. Also I think pre-orders are a big issue with new games. Maybe not for vendors but for customers. Gone are the days where you can go to the game store and try a new game by buying a few packs, a starter deck, most of a box or maybe even an unopened box behind if you are lucky; one exception MTG. Just like everything else in todays world, it is all cyber now. First magazines, then CD's, music stores of all types, and soon gaming stores will all be gone. Everything is gonna be online. I blame FB. LOL.

The same exact thing happened with dice masters upon its initial release in 2014.

9 minutes ago, krzykoopa said:

I feel that any paraphrasing would do no good so here is word for word quotes in the order in which they were said.

"It was a disastrously low number of preorders"

"The first wave came out on December 1st"

"Then it just took off like a juggernaut, it was a runaway freight train at that point, so from there we were looking at the problem because we had already started manufacturing set 2 even though with the numbers we saw in November we weren't sure if anyone really wanted it"

"we were deep in production in December already on set 2 and now we have a problem of how are we gonna reprint the first set"

From this it is easy to see that because the preorders were so low they didn't think it would sell out and therefore why run a second print of the same set? Once it sold out they said oh **** and then he explains what they did to make a second print of awakenings possible.

How is this inventing anything? this is a logistical explanation but it just seems not to be good enough for you. I am not being abusive or dishonest I understand your frustration I feel it is clouding your judgement here.

This right here is a user with listening comprehension skills. Unlike others on this thread he is able to not only HEAR what is said but actually LISTEN to what is being said allowing him to form logical conclusions.

4 hours ago, krzykoopa said:

From this it is easy to see that because the preorders were so low they didn't think it would sell out and therefore why run a second print of the same set? Once it sold out they said oh **** and then he explains what they did to make a second print of awakenings possible.

How is this inventing anything? this is a logistical explanation but it just seems not to be good enough for you. I am not being abusive or dishonest I understand your frustration I feel it is clouding your judgement here.

He says absolutely nothing about the preorders affecting the reprint decision. At all. The decision to move to printing SoR was set. They thought they had enough. That didn't change until the actual sales numbers hit. There was not even a consideration of a reprint in November.

If you want to argue that they would have reprinted it if the preorders reflected the actual sales - fine. That's speculation, and you're welcome to speculate whatever you want. But claiming that the low preorders affected anything is utterly without evidence.

4 hours ago, pstalker said:

This right here is a user with listening comprehension skills. Unlike others on this thread he is able to not only HEAR what is said but actually LISTEN to what is being said allowing him to form logical conclusions.

There is nothing logical about what you're claiming. It's a purely hypothetical which is based in nothing. Would they have ordered more if the preorders have been stronger? Possibly. But that's not the same as making a decision based on the low preorders. There was not even a consideration for a reprint before December, how could it have been affected by the preorder numbers?

14 hours ago, krzykoopa said:

I feel that any paraphrasing would do no good so here is word for word quotes in the order in which they were said.

"It was a disastrously low number of preorders"

ok, where does it say it effected preorders?

"The first wave came out on December 1st"

still don't

"Then it just took off like a juggernaut, it was a runaway freight train at that point, so from there we were looking at the problem because we had already started manufacturing set 2 even though with the numbers we saw in November we weren't sure if anyone really wanted it"

still did not say that what caused shipment to be little

"we were deep in production in December already on set 2 and now we have a problem of how are we gonna reprint the first set"

same as above

From this it is easy to see that because the preorders were so low they didn't think it would sell out and therefore why run a second print of the same set? Once it sold out they said oh **** and then he explains what they did to make a second print of awakenings possible.

How is this inventing anything? this is a logistical explanation but it just seems not to be good enough for you. I am not being abusive or dishonest I understand your frustration I feel it is clouding your judgement here.

answers in bold

Maybe I'm just too casual. I don't pre-order. I don't spend hours scouting the net to save a dollar. I don't obsess about gotta get'em all. I simply want to walk into a store, spot a game I'm willing to try and buy it.